tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post116887982382644273..comments2024-03-21T20:10:28.943+08:00Comments on EDUCATION IN MALAYSIA: Sciences vs HumanitiesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169801783850350982007-01-26T16:56:00.000+08:002007-01-26T16:56:00.000+08:00to the person above, yup you are right arts / soci...to the person above, yup you are right arts / social science subjects should be <BR/>compulsory. Subjects like economics philosophy, psychology and world history are as important as pure science subjects. Those subject will make students understand about human nature and human thoughts unlike pure science subjects which lacks certain things like values and ethics. IMHO high school students should study both social science subjects and pure science subjects. Both require analytical skills.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169460215679824652007-01-22T18:03:00.000+08:002007-01-22T18:03:00.000+08:00Do you know that Science students at STPM make bet...Do you know that Science students at STPM make better law students in the university compared to arts students?<BR/><BR/>They are more cleverer and logical and analytical compared to the diffused brain of the Arts students?<BR/><BR/>During my students days in 60's the Art students are the ones in class C, D, E or F. Most them dozing away in classAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169356274469292452007-01-21T13:11:00.000+08:002007-01-21T13:11:00.000+08:00The government should... Also, the government shou...The government should... Also, the government should... <BR/><BR/>There are things beyond our control. We strive for a better life. Some people make it their mission in life. Others strive to make everyone's life better. <BR/><BR/>Beyond gains in fame and power, I hope the politicians will do the right thing for everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169274874399997532007-01-20T14:34:00.000+08:002007-01-20T14:34:00.000+08:00IMHO, schools should stop streaming up students......IMHO, schools should stop streaming up students...I thhink students should learn both science subjects and arts subjects..both are important in life. The gov should scrap the general science subject in arts stream because it is so stupid..instead they should make bio, chemistry and physics a compulsary subjects for everyone. Schools should focus more on analytic and problem solving skills rather than forcing students memorize formulas etc..etc. Our streaming of students is outdated things are getting inter-disciplinary now if they dont change the system now then we will screw up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169197449871890182007-01-19T17:04:00.000+08:002007-01-19T17:04:00.000+08:00Very well written and very pognant article. HAve t...Very well written and very pognant article. HAve to agree with almost all that you've stated. Being a good student, I have always been cajoled into doing sciences even from a very young age. IT's all to do with a very Malaysian mentality that the better students study sciences while the weaker ones do arts, especially at lower secondary levels. This attitude should be abhored as it promotes a tunnel vision kind of mentality. Only now, after completing my degree in a science subject, do I find a great enjoyment of the arts and humanities. I just wished I had the opportunity to delve into these subjects from a younger age and had not been 'pressurized' into the science stream. We all need to change our mind sets and open up to the possibilities of other 'non-conventional' subjects in the humanities and arts realm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169146773647927802007-01-19T02:59:00.000+08:002007-01-19T02:59:00.000+08:00Aiya. Read Tony's thing again lah AHPIAU. The arts...Aiya. Read Tony's thing again lah AHPIAU. The arts stream in Malaysian secondary schools is only inferior to the science stream because, although Malaysia sucks at math and science, Malaysia sucks REALLY REALLY BADLY in social science, the humanities, and the fine arts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1169008835852116222007-01-17T12:40:00.000+08:002007-01-17T12:40:00.000+08:00Well said!For a 15+ year old who just finished PMR...Well said!<BR/><BR/>For a 15+ year old who just finished PMR, it could be a tough decision. People who are wired to do math and science (e.g. myself) have no problems picking science. Others who have a passion for art, accounting etc would pick arts stream. <BR/><BR/>For those in between type who does not have a love/hate for either stream, the decision becomes unclear. The next level down in the decision matrix is the consideration of how the syllabus are being implemented. <BR/><BR/>As pointed out above, subjects such as history and even accounting should be taught with an analytical slant and not just rote memorization. As most of us know, this is unfortunately not that case. <BR/><BR/>Though this could also be said the same for the science stream. IMHO, analytical skills are used more <I>frequently</I> in subjects like add maths and physics. (BTW E=mc<I>2</I> is still a theory).<BR/><BR/>Coming from a science stream, many of my fellow classmates went on to do finance and accounting without much difficulty (though they profess hating physics or one subject or the other. I disliked chemistry :P) . Others went on to study medicine and engineering out of choice/passion (e.g. myself). <BR/><BR/>My point is: science stream does not trump arts stream. But if you're choosing a stream purely for the personal development; with the consideration of how classes are taught, I'm unashamedly biased towards science stream.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168998833863736982007-01-17T09:53:00.000+08:002007-01-17T09:53:00.000+08:00If you take arts, you will die in poverty!If you take arts, you will die in poverty!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168968653764883592007-01-17T01:30:00.000+08:002007-01-17T01:30:00.000+08:00Let’s put it this way, IMHO, there is no differenc...Let’s put it this way, IMHO, there is no difference between studying science or arts. Both subject required passion and interest to do well. Pure science is a study to understand how nature works, e.g. how body system function, how universe is formed and so forth. On the other hand, arts (or humanities) is a study to understand how the society works. In other words, it’s more about dealing with human-related subjects or what human has created (i.e. economy, society, communication and so forth). Therefore, it’s not surprising that science subjects are usually more objective (i.e. 1+1=2) and art subjects is more subjective by nature. <BR/><BR/>If all the organisms (i.e. human, animals and plants) do not have intelligent, art will perish. But, science (the law of physics and etc) will still persist as far as our universe still persists. In that sense, science is perhaps more universal than arts (in my opinion). On another perspective, since art is dealing with human nature (i.e. human behavior), it could be categorized as a branch of science, because human is part of nature. Just like geography is the study of earth but it could also be considered as part of astronomy as earth is part of the universe. Conceptually, if the theory of everything exist, it will predict all the behavior of nature down to the very tiny little molecule that exist in the universe, including how human think and behave. If that is the case, all the arts theory and subjects will collapse as one could precisely predict how people will react to certain act/behavior, i.e. one could produce a perfect product that everyone would like to buy, no more competition, economy will collapse and everything that we do/react will be predicted just like a robot. Then, humanity will perish. Scary huh…! Just a wild thought. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, come back to the real world. Whether science is better than art, it’s a question of regional relevant. The reason I said so is because different region of the world (i.e. developed vs developing countries) has different emphasis. Country like Malaysia and China which based their economy heavily on manufacturing might emphasize science rather than art. On the other hand, countries like Singapore and Hong Kong which is a financial or services hub will perhaps emphasize more on arts (i.e. finance, economy, accounting and etc). Developed countries like US and UK emphasized both as they need both the leading technology and services to maintain their economy. In Malaysia, we still need a lot of engineer and doctors to support the growth of the country. That’s probably why science graduate has a higher demand and is normally higher paid when they first started their job than art graduate. But, the situation might change in the future when Malaysia become well developed and need more of the services to sustain its growth. So at the end of the day, both are equally important. But, at the mean time, practically speaking, I think science graduates will still be in high demand in Malaysia, perhaps in the next 10 years. So, my bias at the moment, is more to science than art. Sorry, art people, no hard feeling. Just my opinion :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168963924236896592007-01-17T00:12:00.000+08:002007-01-17T00:12:00.000+08:00You guys certainly took it too far from the origin...You guys certainly took it too far from the original recently 'graduated' PMR students who are now in Form 4 in their respective schools. Whether they are in Science or Arts stream, they still have to study the basic core subjects, which comprise mostly Art subjects like languages, history, and basic Maths. The arts students have to learn basic sciences as well. Hence I think that there are balances between the 2 contended streams. Other than that, I think that it's still too early for them to know what career paths they are going to choose in their tertiary years. I believe many students will be confused and surprised at the wide range of choices they have once they step out of schools. That's when and why the counsellors and elders' advices come in handy in order to guide them, not urge them to do something they like or otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168963104240508492007-01-16T23:58:00.000+08:002007-01-16T23:58:00.000+08:00General perception is that science focus on gainin...General perception is that science focus on gaining factual knowledge while humanities develop goals like creativity and communication skills. So the point is, since both knowledge development and intellectual development are equally important, why limit one’s learning potential ? <BR/><BR/>So for a pure science student, it’s reasonable to persuade your parents to allow you to take some additional arts subjects as much as handle-able and allow-able, of course with outside school tuition for those selected subjects which school time-table does not permit.<BR/><BR/>ellie..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168962171558213612007-01-16T23:42:00.000+08:002007-01-16T23:42:00.000+08:00Whan an exciting thread!Personally, I think educat...Whan an exciting thread!<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think education should (note: SHOULD) be about preparing us for the real world. In other words, it should teach us basic academics, but more importantly are the 'soft skills' like time management, communication skills, meeting deadlines, business writing and the like.<BR/><BR/>I dare say that a Sociology graduate should be able to work for Tony's company, right, Tony? If that person shows enough interest and is 'teachable', has good communication and other soft skills and puts in the hours required, who cares if he/she is a Sociology graduate or a Computer Science graduate?<BR/><BR/>In fact, when I was an undergraduate in the UK some 15 years ago, I distinctly remember being told by potential employers that they prefer a 'well rounded' candidate. I interviewed with some accounting firms and they specifically preferred candidates who did NOT do an accounting degree. Rather, someone with a different degree but with enough basic accounting knowledge, e.g. accounting subject electives or even A Level accounting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168962018820528272007-01-16T23:40:00.000+08:002007-01-16T23:40:00.000+08:00Hi there folks, I am currently studying pure physi...Hi there folks, I am currently studying pure physics in USM.<BR/>The debate where the issue "science>art or art>science" is discussed is just damn hilarious.<BR/>I study political science and medicine during my past time as they are my interest as well.<BR/>From what I had observed, all fields have their own difficult part, especially at the higher level.<BR/>For those who assume science is just "1+1=2" logic, you are certainly welcomed to try string theory in physics or even differential diagnosis in medical science.<BR/>For those who assume political science is damn easy, go ahead and try yourself in analyzing complicated political issues.<BR/><BR/>It's always up to a person to decide which field to major in varsity. While society misconception and parents' pressure are part of the reasons why art subjects never gained much popularity, it's more important nowadays that youngster should have a critical thinking in making decision regardless their interest is in science or art subjects. <BR/><BR/>TYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168960126220546562007-01-16T23:08:00.000+08:002007-01-16T23:08:00.000+08:00Sciences vs art stream? Sounds like apple vs orang...Sciences vs art stream? Sounds like apple vs orange.<BR/><BR/>If a education worker use "intelligent" to differentiate between science and art, I think they ARE NOT QUALIFY to work in education. <BR/><BR/>One issue I must remind the author, in Malaysia, many teacher are not PROPERLY trained to conduct the so called art subject. Many teacher are not even an amateur when conduct music course; art teacher that know little,etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168959545341871462007-01-16T22:59:00.000+08:002007-01-16T22:59:00.000+08:00I agree with K^SHy0nG that part of our perception ...I agree with K^SHy0nG that part of our perception of science being better than arts is due to our education system. But I wouldn't say its flawed. Developing countries like Malaysia see science as the foundation for modernizing the country. As such our education system has been geared towards producing scientists and engineers to help innovate and develop the country towards a developed nation status. <BR/><BR/>As we prosper and become more developed and our lives become more enriched we have more options and less constraint by government policies. Eventually, government policies will change too to emphasize humanities as an important area in building a civil society.<BR/><BR/>And I agree with Zheng An that language skills play an important role in Humanities, probably more than science. As he (or she) said to ace and not simply to pass, you need to be able to express yourself creatively which means you need to have a good command of the language.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168950090759279672007-01-16T20:21:00.000+08:002007-01-16T20:21:00.000+08:00Humanities require creativity, hardwork, excellent...Humanities require creativity, hardwork, excellent probing skills, writing skills and superior language ability. You do have to realise in the Singapore context it is very easy to pass a humans subject but its very demanding and require much more talent to ace it. As i who takes the same combination as Tony Pua (im from Temasek JC), experiences it first hand last year. Being a students who takes maths and humanities subject. I find that as long as the student is talented and hardworking enough. It is possible to ace in this both fields. In my O levels, i had score straight As in my science and humanities subjects including language. I choose to do a predominantly humanities combinaion purely due to my passion for it. Another factor of my decision is that i do know that i have a much superior anaylitical and language skills, thus I am able to ace in Humanities with bare minimum mugging....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168946570082078262007-01-16T19:22:00.000+08:002007-01-16T19:22:00.000+08:00Sorry i had to repost, To Anon, Tue Jan 16, 2:36:2...Sorry i had to repost, <BR/><BR/>To Anon, Tue Jan 16, 2:36:27<BR/><BR/>I quote u saying <BR/><BR/>"Now, have you ever heard of anyone who did not take Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry ect in their STPM dare to major in these subjects in university?"<BR/><BR/>In the first place, your question is very difficult to be be answered. Cos very RARELY is a student who did arts in F6, is accepted into a public university to do sciences. WHy? because the pre-requisites do not permit it. <BR/><BR/>HOWEVER, I did have a senior who did arts in F6, but through a miracle maybe, was accepted into sciences and majored in biology. So, yes I have heard of it. He did go for it. <BR/><BR/>Also, I found a lot of my friends who are taking engineering and other sciences found economics hard to understand and do when they chose it as an elective. Though i found it otherwise.<BR/><BR/>Some thing that I would like to suggest is we not argue that science is better just because our fellow students who did not do so well in secondary school being streamed to arts and the academically better ones were streamed to sciences. This is just a flawed instance in our education system and NOT the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168946125067249522007-01-16T19:15:00.000+08:002007-01-16T19:15:00.000+08:00To Anon, Tue Jan 2, 2:36:27I quote u saying "Now,...To Anon, Tue Jan 2, 2:36:27<BR/><BR/>I quote u saying <BR/><BR/>"Now, have you ever heard of anyone who did not take Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry ect in their STPM dare to major in these subjects in university?"<BR/><BR/>In the first place, your question is very difficult to be be answered. Cos very RARELY is a student who did arts in F6, is accepted into a public university to do sciences. WHy? because the pre-requisites do not permit it. <BR/><BR/>HOWEVER, I did have a senior who did arts in F6, but through a miracle maybe, was accepted into sciences and majored in biology. So, yes I have heard of it. He did go for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168942249067092042007-01-16T18:10:00.000+08:002007-01-16T18:10:00.000+08:00Anon Tue Jan 16, 02:43:52 PM,now i know how clever...Anon Tue Jan 16, 02:43:52 PM,<BR/>now i know how clever u r :) but sadly ur reasoning just doesn't show itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168941021550232132007-01-16T17:50:00.000+08:002007-01-16T17:50:00.000+08:00i read somewhere that the famous management guru,...i read somewhere that the famous management guru, Peter Drucker was a lawyer , not an economist , by education..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168935697340456792007-01-16T16:21:00.000+08:002007-01-16T16:21:00.000+08:00hey,Just a quick comment on Anon 11:57 who essenti...hey,<BR/><BR/>Just a quick comment on Anon 11:57 who essentially said that studying history means becoming a historian means no good income.<BR/><BR/>This is exactly the reason why people have a misconception of the Humanities. It seems like if I studied Politics, I'll have to become a politician, or worse, I did Philosophy, so I am now a Philosopher!<BR/><BR/>That's certainly the thinking of the older generation, and it's misguided.<BR/><BR/>The humanities subjects are meant to help students learn to think and use their brains in analytical and creative ways. And I must say, I have benefited immensely from my humanities programmes in O, A and degree levels over my 9 years of education, making me a more resourceful and hopefully more streetsmart and intelligent person.<BR/><BR/>I run a decent e-business consulting company today making full use of the faculties which I have developed over the years in school. And I'm neither a professional historian nor philosopher. ;)Golf Afflictedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16363347839543221577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168932544855502062007-01-16T15:29:00.000+08:002007-01-16T15:29:00.000+08:00Agree with Jan, the Arts syllabus in Malaysia ( fo...Agree with Jan, the Arts syllabus in Malaysia ( for SPM ) is not challenging and it mainly concerns memorising content to score.<BR/><BR/>I was particularly shocked when I took up history in Singapore as the methods of learning and examining is totally different from Malaysia. While accuracy of facts is still demanded, students are further required to produce arguments that made sense ( e.g. not copy straight from the text books, there are no official text books for A level). <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, there was even something called Source Based Question which sounded so alien to me when I went over to Singapore. I still feel that the skills learnt in answering Source Based Question are the most relevant ones and these can be quoted from Jan( previous post<BR/><BR/>Skills learnt:differentiating between nuances of meaning; weighing the relative importance of different causal factors; understanding the relationship between change and continuity; discerning the tone, intent and credibility of a particular source; thinking critically and analytically; constructing a cogent and coherent argument<BR/><BR/>To Jan: China came out again for 3rd year running.( that is if you took the paper in nov 2006 ) -_-'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168930352886206702007-01-16T14:52:00.000+08:002007-01-16T14:52:00.000+08:00As an Arts student studying in a Singapore JC, I a...As an Arts student studying in a Singapore JC, I am naturally biased towards the Arts. Nevertheless, here's my two cents on why the Arts are definitely not inferior to the Sciences.<BR/><BR/>While it may be easier to pass Arts subjects compared to Science subjects, it is far more difficult to ace an Arts subject. Science examinations usually have objective answers, and if you have studied your content well, you can be guaranteed an A, or even full marks. Examinations for Arts subjects like History and Literature, on the other hand, are essay-based with subjective answers, and merely knowing your content will not help you pass. You need to argue convincingly to support your stand. You need to have excellent writing abilities. And even then, teachers are loath to grant an essay full marks - unlike in the Sciences, where a correct answer is a correct answer. <BR/><BR/>As part of this Arts training, Arts students are usually far more proficient in language and communication skills than Science students. And I would contend that communication skills is of primary importance if one is to succeed in most future careers. The Arts training thus prepares students for careers in law, business, finance, and the media far better than the Science path.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the Science training has limited utility. Most working adults I know tell me that what they had learnt in the Science syllabus during their secondary school and college years are completely irrelevant to what they are doing now, and they have by and large forgotten all the formulas and scientific principles they had so painstakingly memorised for exams. The Science training thus only has relevance for those who intend to take up specialised careers in engineering, medicine, computer programming, etc. <BR/><BR/>Some may contend that the Arts syllabus is largely useless too, as one seldom needs to know historical dates or literary allusions to succeed in life. However, this signifies a complete misunderstanding of the Arts. The content of Arts subjects are not as important as the skills you learn. Skills such as differentiating between nuances of meaning; weighing the relative importance of different causal factors; understanding the relationship between change and continuity; discerning the tone, intent and credibility of a particular source; thinking critically and analytically; constructing a cogent and coherent argument… all these are very relevant skills which will stay with you for a long time. This is unlike Science subjects, where emphasis is placed on material knowledge rather than skills. And such knowledge gets forgotten very fast. <BR/><BR/>I can think of three main reasons why the Arts are perceived as inferior to the Sciences: 1) Science subjects require more memory work and studying than Arts subjects; 2) The Arts may be perceived as less practical and relevant than the Sciences to the economy; and 2) The Arts syllabus in Malaysia is not really challenging. Having not studied an Arts course in Malaysia, I can’t really comment on the latter, but given the appalling (English) language standard of most Malaysians, I suspect that Malaysia’s Arts syllabus cannot be as demanding as that of Singapore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168929832384688462007-01-16T14:43:00.000+08:002007-01-16T14:43:00.000+08:00Then pls tell me how come science students can exc...Then pls tell me how come science students can excel in Arts courses but not vice versa?<BR/><BR/>This proves science students more smarter maaa!<BR/><BR/>In my school all the clever clever obes take science, the not clever ones do arts....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12123329.post-1168929387415901972007-01-16T14:36:00.000+08:002007-01-16T14:36:00.000+08:00To see whether Arts is easier than Science, just c...To see whether Arts is easier than Science, just consider this: many university students did NOT take History or Geography for their STPM, yet are able to get a good degree majoring in these subjects. Now, have you ever heard of anyone who did not take Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry ect in their STPM dare to major in these subjects in university?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com