Dr Andy Woo has written to me to correct my impression of the University. Below is his mail to me published in full. ;)
I enjoyed reading your blog on Education in Malaysia, especially on the issues of Colleges having Senior Academic Staff, Facilitators and Lecturers with dubious Doctorates.Readers do feel free to visit the links provided by Andy for more details.
I wish to correct and clarify one item in your blog with regards to Southern Cross University (SCU) as mentioned by you. South Cross University, Lizmore, NSW, Australia is an Australian Public University governed by the laws of Australia . Southern Cross University is an Australian Government university that is recognised by governments and professional bodies throughout the world. It is NOT a dubious degree mills university. Please go to their website - for a complete history of SCU.
It is to my knowledge that the personalities that were mentioned in your blog that claimed to have a “Doctorate” from Southern Cross University did not get their “Doctorates” from Southern Cross University but a “Doctor of Management” from an association/institution call International Management Centres Association (IMCA). I have personally viewed that “Doctor of Management” Certificate and it is quite unfortunate that “Southern Cross University” was mentioned in it. However, for some reasons or other, all those who received such a “Doctor of Management” degree claimed that that “Doctorate” degree is from the Southern Cross University and not a word is mentioned about IMCA.
To the best of my knowledge, Southern Cross University does not have such a degree called “Doctor of Management” and neither those personalities who claimed to have a “Doctor of Management” from Southern Cross University are listed in its list of DBA Graduates. Please refer here.
For your information, I have done my studies and research conscientiously and am a proud DBA Graduate of the Graduate College of Management of the Southern Cross University. It really irks me to see the way Southern Cross University’s being associated with those Degree Mills and having its name being tarnished in this way.
Please publish the above information for the sake of good order and the benefit of everyone. Thank you very much.
Best regards
Andy
Bloke misspelled Lizmore, it should be Lismore. Btw, Southern Cross is one of the "dodgier" government universities here, they've been known to put their name on anything that can generate some cash, which is unfortunate, due to the university funding policy by the Australian Federal Government. Just my 2 cents worth.
ReplyDeleteHi Tony,
ReplyDeleteI commented before on your posting on Australian Universities (very controversial post I remember) that Australia has for a long time pursued easy access to Tertiary education. In practice that means that quality of education at these institutions varies widely. There are well established Universities with excellent reputations, and also some which I would describe as mediocre.
Southern Cross university is a Bona Fide public university, but it has relatively low entry requirements and doesn't have a strong track record, partly because it is relatively new.
They are not all bad - some of the new universities have been much more innovative with regard to course design and syllabus.
I did my Bachelors degree at the University of Melbourne and Masters at University of Sydney, both good institutions, but I found the faculty stuffy and the course design rather dated.
yeah
ReplyDeleteSCU,
Jame COOKs,
Gold Sunshine....
to malaysians,
as long as it helps
to get OZIEE PR...
see...australian universities no standard....
ReplyDeleteIf it is good it won't give away its name so easily. Only make sure that the overseas experience is worth the money spent.
ReplyDelete~
Andy,
ReplyDeletePerhaps you would like to share with us why you selected the university, your DBA experience and given a choice would you have selected another route?
~
I considered enrolling for their MBA programme but reading the following comments put me off:
ReplyDelete"Being consistently ranked in the top five of Australian universities in terms of ‘overall graduate satisfaction’ Southern Cross University’s MBA attracts high-calibre candidates. We have added convenience, flexibility, timeliness and service to the traditional MBA qualities of relevance and academic rigour.
"
Their graduates seemed satisfied but what else could they say or do? What about their employability and value? I made some enquiries but employers dont think very much of their degrees, although recognised. Further, the U is not competitive and their "flexibility and convenience" seems to imply loose or low standards both in admissions and academic performance.
Overall, the university is lowly ranked in the bottom quartile of the 40 Ozzie Us mainly due to its newness I think.
The problem with the new universities is that they all strive for financial survival and economies of scale through quickly carving out a market share. They all go offshore to increase their numbers. You can see their many programmes being marketed in Malaysia. Not much attention is paid towards ensuring academic excellence and aiming to be up there in any of the world's rankings.
I am not sure of SCU's ranking internationally but if it is lowly ranked in Australia, then it must be ranked very lowly internationally. Maybe many Asian and Malaysian universities might be better as they are ranked.
Eddie Kurniawan
We should keep track of the number of advertisements universities/institutes put on our newspapers... and try to correlate it with some (more) credible rankings...
ReplyDeleteThe correlations might tell us something about their qualities...
Actually I was at one point considering doing DBA with SCU. Is there any ways I could contact Andy to know more about it?
ReplyDeleteAlthough "flexibility" to some means that they have low standards, I believe there are also those of us who really needs those flexibilities due to our work requirements and the budget we could afford. So there are still many factors that we need to take into account.
Open University Malaysia is very very much "flexible" :)
ReplyDeleteThe Student.
How does open university run their programs. Any PhD students of Open University here?
ReplyDeleteLet's not comment based on our perception without actual experiences.
education is over-rated. period.
ReplyDeleteSCU was run by an affiliate of a local private college. The guy in charge was really rude and wanted RM75,000 up front and kept his white mistress in the office. Can't question him or else he will boot you out. Secondly, SCU is an iffy institution, has the honoured mentioned anything much about publications or tried and tested nascent theories that have been subject to srutiny. For all I care SCU is another diploma mill owned by the authorities.
ReplyDeleteCharles Sturt University is another one that should be high lighted especially with its joint venture with HELP. Money making and questionable ethics though they claim they have tonnes of it.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised there's so much talked about Southern Cross and Charles Sturt when there are also lower ranks like Sunshine Coast, USQ, Balarart ... etc in the Malaysian market advertising 100% assignment based, MBA for fresh graduates ... etc. Shouldn't these be given even more attention?
ReplyDeleteHow about University of Newcastle Australia's DBA offered by SMRC (SeGi) where MBA graduates can enter at year 2 and complete in 28 months?
ReplyDeleteHave anyone investigated that before?
as if british and american universities are totally clean in this so-called business mongering of msian students.
ReplyDeleteas said,
ReplyDeleteas long as it helps
to secure
"OZZIE PR",
bolehmen favorite place,
(not the chinaman southern island)
be it politicians of VVVIP level,
across races,
business tycoons,
and professional too!
Of course the American (or UK)Universities are not totally clean. You can buy a degree in America. I got junk mail implying that now and then.
ReplyDeleteHowever, has any one tried to buy a degree from Harvard, Stanford, Caltech and MIT ? Yes, with a lot of money you can get easier access like Singapore_MIT alliance, but those students are well screened too and it takes a lot of money, not a typical student or parent can do. So, don't have to worry about quality of applicants from these places for a typical employer.
Southern Cross, Charles Stuart etc. are established universities in Australia. They may not have the same level of funding from the Australian govt, or the profile of Melbourne and Sydney University, but they are heaps better than University Malaya by miles.
ReplyDeleteThe writers of this blog would profit from consulting with students who have studied in Australia, instead of making such assumptions.
Southern Cross university standard same as HELP, INTI , KDU and Sedaya
ReplyDeleteEven if SCU is on par with HELP, INTI, KDU, Sedaya ... We can consider it better that UM too. Personally I'm from an MNC and I do realize my company prefers hiring people from these private colleges rather than UM. And it seems like unknown universities in the UK were also preferred ahead of UM. So we should give due credit to these "not so prestigious" universities too.
ReplyDeleteSorry to say that Charles Stuart (CSU) is one of the worst university in AU. Look at how the CSU MBA and MIT programmes being collaborated at HELP then you should know where the quality is. Am I qualify for saying so? Yes, I have one very close friend worked with HELP before and got his MIT from HELP. He tolds me, HELP has put in Master level lecturers to teach MIT programme. I though, to teach Master level programme, the lecturers are required to have Doctorate qualification? I am not UM student but I am very sure UM is much more better then CSU and SCU. To note, a lot of HELP lecturers had benefits from CSU MBA and MIT to upgrade their academic qualification.
ReplyDeleteCheck this, HELP IT Dept:
http://www2.help.edu.my/helpuni/it/index.php?subcat=159&id=420
Ms Anitha Velayutham
BIT ( Info Sys ), MBA (Int'l Bus) (CSU)
Senior Lecturer
Mr Kok Chye Hock
BSc ( Maths & CompSc ) Hons (UKM), MIT (CSU)
Senior Lecturer
Ms Ng Shu Min
BA ( Maths & CompSc ) Hons (Bryn Mawr), MIT (CSU)
Senior Lecturer
Ms Chung Sew Ying, Melinda
BA ( CompSc & Econs ) Hons (Toronto), MIT (CSU)
Senior Lecturer
Mr Velladurai A/L Balakrishnan
BSc ( Bus Info Sys ) Hons (UEL), MBA (CSU)
Lecturer
Mr Ng Sze Meng, Tony
BSc ( Bus Comp & IT ) Hons (Wales), MIT (CSU)
Lecturer
4 out of 7 Senior Lecturers are from CSU :)
The Student.
Hmmmm ... Look at the grammar!! No wonder this student felt that UM is better than CSU or SCU! Very well qualified to comment?
ReplyDeleteIsn't it obvious as to why HELP lecturers CSU Masters? It's offered conveniently at their work location and they probably got cheaper fees. Who in the right frame of mind wouldn't take up that opportunity?
Take not that I am NOT a lecturer from HELP, just my thoughts
Why is everyone arguing about the standard of universities here? The success of a person depends on their own initiatives, not the university they graduated from.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, on the topic above, I believe HELP would have better lecturers because private colleges generally pay better and attract better talents. Just my guess though.
Never mind lah, grammar not good you also read. Please, check carefully the ranking of CSU and SCU at :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.australian-universities.com/rankings/
See... CSU at the bottom-top and World ranking of CSU is our of 3000 but UM is around 1600.
Some top scholars at China can't write in good English but their works still published at top journal, what about those who can write good English in Malaysia but zero publication :)
Tha poor grammar student.
Hey the student, do you mean that there is a world ranking list that ranks more than 3000 universities? Where do we find that? Can you show the link? I'm very interested and curious about it.
ReplyDeleteConsider me a little ignorant here, but I'm actually also curious to know if what you say about Chinese without good English publishing work in top journals is true. Does the journals just publish their original work without correcting any gramatical errors? Rather interesting. Haven't got a chance to get hold of any top journals.
No, no list will rank a uni out of 3000 so if you are not in the first 3000 then it means you are out of the list.
ReplyDeleteCheck this:
http://www.webometrics.info/top3000.asp
Sure those China scholars papers had gone through proofread lah, no journal will publish any paper with full of grammar errors, like me, sure can not lah.
The poor grammar student.
Hahahahahah ... I'm laughing my heads off ... I was just looking at that website and realizes that The poor grammar student now needs to evolve the sign-off into The poor grammar poor research student.
ReplyDeleteThe list shows that UM is ranked 1475 while CSU is 477 and SCU is 1027. CSU out of 3000? It's in fact among the top 500!
OK ... I know what's gonna happen next, someone is going to come in and say that the ranking is not accurate =P
Dear Tony,
ReplyDeleteEducation is a process of gaining knowledge. A university is a place where one can acquire knowledge through education. Joining a good university gives you a better headstart in life with better job and better income but it does not guarantee success in life. Whether a person has a degree from a highly rated or a lower rated university does not made the person being successful. It is the knowledge that he/she gain through the process of education that makes him or her a better person. If he/she use that knowledge intelligently he/she probably be successul in life.
So comparing which universities is better is an endless debate. I glad that some people have the opportunity to attend some top notch university but the comments made from them indicate that these graduates for the top notch universities did not use their knowledge that they have gain from these top notch university well. e.g. accusing a university being a dubious degree mills university without proper facts to substiantate the accusation. It is like if there is one conman in Malaysia, then all Malaysian are con artists.
Life is a journey and gaining proper education is major milestone in one life. The ability to contribute one's knowledge to mankind is success irrespective of the type of university a person is from. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs has proven to the world that you can be a university dropout and yet still be successful in life.
So please tony, stop this endless debate, and let us all utilise the knowledge that we have gain through life to benefit mankind and also ourselves.
Regards
Chew Seng Poh
CSU, USC, SCU all from OZ but all of no standard.
ReplyDeleteAussie universities got no standard....cos they got wombats, kangaroos as their lecturers
ReplyDeleteI am a senior manager with a MNC. My experience at the Segi College when I studied for USQ's MBA program has been quite rewarding. Judging by the way the assignments were marked, I believe that USQ has been most concerned with keeping high academic standards.The written examinations were also quite tough. If I do have a criticism to make, the MBA course should be be classified into an executive MBA program for experienced senior managers and a general MBA for other students. The lecturers are mostly well qualified to teach the subjects and judging by the way they delivered the lectures, many of them had good working experience on the subject. I attended an executive development program at the business school of the University of Illinois, USA and I am able to recognize the quality of study materials. It is not really fair for people who have not studied at relatively new Australian
ReplyDeleteuniversities to jump to conclusion.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAndy,
Perhaps you would like to share with us why you selected the university, your DBA experience and given a choice would you have selected another route?
In answer to the above:
The most important thing in doing a doctorate is your supervisor. If you have a good supervisor, you will be able to gain tremendously from the experience and getting your thesis done in time. I was fortunate to have an excellent supervisor, Dr. Barry Ritchie who was the former Head of Eliza Business School and General Manager of BHP Proprietary Ltd. He is now retired (or using his words "trying to retire"). I am grateful to him for his guidance, advice and encouragement to get me to graduation on time.
For those who want to contact me, my email address is : aclwoo@gmail.com
Andy
For what its worth, i think it is important to point that Dr. Andy Woo is actually one of the Supervisors for the SCU DBA programme.
ReplyDeleteIN MY OPINION -
ReplyDeleteTHE WORST UNIVERSITY COLLEGE IN CANADA:
MALASPINA UNIVERSITY COLLEGE, NANAIMO, B.C.
Patrick Ross the Student Services VP denies students any kind of parent protection of them from lies by a Professor [Brown] who says a student has missed over half the classes when they have not!!
Another Professor refuses to give out a course content summary [Walsh].
Also, an open letter to Frank Moher:
I have seen what you wrote to my daughter, Patricia.
I have also seen her posting to your course on 5 November, 2007 and there
was NO ATTACHMENT??
In your statistics, where are you getting that the original was created on 5
November, 2007 when there was NO ATTACHMENT OF A FILE on 5 November, 2007??
The e-mail was created on 5 November, 2007!!!
And since there was NO ATTACHMENT WITH THE E-MAIL, you CANNOT SAY WITH ANY DEGREE OF ACCURACY OR TRUTH WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ATTACHED??
Hence, your comments are totally inappropriate as you CANNOT ASSUME
ANYTHING:
YOUR E-MAIL STATEMENTS TO MY DAUGHTER ARE RIDICULOUS PREJUDICIAL STATEMENTS!
Finally, Patricia has done enough university work to know not to plagiarize
anything, and submit it as her own!!
Your comments are unfounded??
PATRICIA AND I HAVE DECIDED THAT SHE WILL NOT BE DOING ANY MORE COURSE WORK FOR YOU IF THIS IS THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU CONDUCT YOUR DEALINGS WITH STUDENTS, SUPPOSITION, INNUENDO AND NO CONCRETE PROOF??
JUST DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED!!
I HAVE ADVISED PATRICIA LONG AGO TO GET OUT OF MALASPINA AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE WILL NOW DO!!
SHE WILL TAKE NO MORE COURSES AT MALASPINA!!
THANK GOD!!
I have to mention that I am not associated with SCU in any way. I think many of those who posted show only ignorance instead of distinction by criticizing a new university. All public universities in Australia must, by law, maintain a high standard in order to pass the quality assurance assessments being put in place by their government. Being fully accredited, those Australian universities being mentioned---SCU, USQ, CSU and USC---are all quality institutions offering quality programmes taught by qualified faculty. All university faculty members in Australian universities are compensated on almost the same scales across all Australian territories, so there's no reason why any Australian university would accept unqualified academics to join their faculty when it is paying the same salary as the Group of Eight members do. More importantly, being newer, these universities become obvious suspects attracting much more media scrutiny than the older brands. This gives them even more pressure to ensure quality.
ReplyDeleteThere are many ways in which the university rankings are done that disadvantage newer universities and that are often irrelevant to judging the quality of those who had successfully completed degrees from newer universities. Criteria such as years of experience of, GMAT scores of, and proportion of foreigners among, students measure the quality of entering students, not exiting graduates. Those who score well in GMAT may not perform just as well in their university studies, and having more foreigners as one's classmates doesn't necessarily make him a better student. Criteria like research strength and % of faculty members with a doctorate measure how focused universities are in research, but not how serious they are in delivering taught programmes like BBA and MBA.
To cut it short, the quality of graduates can only be measured by the acquired body of knowledge a rigorous set of examinations and assignments that can be verified external assessors. In the cyber age, it's so easy to clone these benchmarks across universities. The same high-quality textbooks and rigorous exam questions may be shared among the 'top' and the 'ordinary' universities. Often, in the case of Australia, faculty members who had taught in a Go8 member teach in other less glamorous universities, and such transfers often occur many times to many professors during their academic career. As long as the newer universities set the same high standards as their older counterparts by using the same high-quality study materials and setting equally rigorous exams, their graduates should be of a comparable. Take note that I say graduates, not students. The newer universities may accept students with worse academic backgrounds, but not all of these can graduate. Those who do graduate must meet the same high quality assurance benchmarks across all Australian universities.
Steve Lane
ReplyDeleteEmail: lanes@mala.ca
Patrick Ross
Email: rossp@mala.ca
cc. jacklinf@mala.ca
lawsonh@mala.ca
nilsonr@mala.ca
hawthord@mala.ca
Hey, Morons:
Didn’t you get a copy of my daughter’s and son’s letter to Malaspina??
If not, one appears below!!
So who really cares what decision(s) you or Malaspina have come to … idiots by any other name are still idiots!!
No one wants to hear from you morons, so you have been blocked from sending any more e-mails!!
The dad
LETTER SENT ON 17 NOVEMBER, 2007
17 November, 2007
Registration
Building 200
Malaspina University-College
900 Fifth Street,
Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 5S5
My father saw a highly prejudicial e-mail sent to me on 17 November, 2007 by Frank Moher, Crew 140, and this is to advise that I will not be doing any more work for this course!!
I will also not be doing any more work for Kathy Page, Crew 120!!
I will not be taking any more courses at Malaspina University College!!
I will not be doing any more programs at Malaspina University College [cancel me out of Applied Business Technology, see attached].
I want nothing more to do with Malaspina University College!
My father thinks the comments by Frank Moher are ridiculous, highly prejudicial and simply based on supposition, innuendo, and conjecture!!
My father again thinks it disgusting behaviour!!
My father told this instructor Frank Moher in a reply e-mail the same date that I have done enough university work to know not to plagiarize anything, and submit it as my own!!
My father told this Frank Moher that his ridiculous comments were unfounded and that due to Frank Moher’s ridiculous comments we decided I would IMMEDIATELY have nothing more to do with Malaspina University College!!
My father told me a long time ago to get out of Malaspina University College and not to have anything more to do with the place!!
He is extremely happy that I have finally taken his advice!!
I am finished with Malaspina University College and I really don’t care what you put in for a grade for Crew 140 and Crew 120!!
As far as my dad is concerned, good riddance to “bad rubbish”!!
Regards,
LETTER SENT ON 21 DECEMBER, 2007
21 December, 2007
Registration
Building 200
Malaspina University-College
900 Fifth Street,
Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 5S5
Now that my final grades have been posted, this letter is for the Registrar.
My father who has three university degrees from two of the most prestigious universities in Canada thinks Malaspina University College is one of the worst, if not the worst, post secondary institute in Canada!!
With such impressive credentials from the best universities in Canada, my father should have a very good idea of what constitutes a good post secondary institute and what does not!!
My father was very pleased when my sister cancelled out of Malaspina University College on 17 November after she had received a highly prejudicial and false statements contained in an e-mail sent to her by Frank Moher, Crew 140!!
My father is equally pleased that I too am cancelling out of any more programs and / or courses at Malaspina University College as I totally support my sister and her stand against the Crew 140 Instructor!!
No one makes stupid accusations against my sister that she would purposefully submit something from “Wikipedia” as her own work!!
Just plain asinine!!
My father simply chalks the matter up to another example of Malaspina U-C rubbish and he cites several other deplorable incidents to gladly support my decision to also have nothing more to do with Malaspina University College:
My father recalls History instructor Helen Brown making false statements that my sister and I missed over half of her lectures, when we did not and the fact that the History Chair [Hawthorne], the Dean [Lane], and the VP Student Services [Ross] did nothing about these false statements [we have kept her notes as proof of her false statements]!!
My father recalls History lecturer Walsh’s reluctance to disclose a course outline [we have kept her email as proof]!!??
My father recalls History Chair Hawthorne accepting reading summaries from us in one format, although he did not put in his course summary that he wanted another format and did not have the decency to tell us until after the grades were posted, and neither he, nor the Dean [Lane], and neither the VP Student Services [Ross] would do anything about this unfair practice!!
My father thinks the behaviour atrocious!!
My dad clearly saw that neither the instructors, nor the History Chair [Hawthorne], nor the Dean [Lane], and neither did the VP Student Services [Ross] had any interest, nor had any intention of standing up for the rights of either my sister or myself!!
My dad clearly saw that all involved, the instructors, the History Chair [Hawthorne], the Dean [Lane], and the VP Student Services [Ross], only had their selfish own interests at heart and to protect!!
It is for this reason, my father formed his opinion a long time ago that Malaspina University College is one of the worst, if not the worst, post secondary institute in Canada!!
In closing, my father was particularly amused at the Dean’s [Lane] improper use of the term ad hominem in an e-mail dated 22 December, 2005!!
My father was also particularly amused at the VP Student Services [Ross] “rantings” in the parking lot --- my dad described Ross as looking like a “raving nut-ball” -- very unprofessional behaviour my dad thought!!
My dad, under freedom of speech, is entitled to his impressions …and, as mentioned, with such impressive credentials from the best universities in Canada, my father should have a very good idea of what constitutes selfish, as opposed to selfless, behaviour … and what he has seen at Malaspina Univeristy College by these “officials” is definitely the former!!
As far as my dad is concerned, good riddance to “bad rubbish”!!
Regards,
cc. Dr. Ralph Nilson
President & CEO
Malaspina University-College
hey how is the malaspina university college MBA program? do graduates get jobs after wards or are they left to rot on the streets given that the university has little local recognition
ReplyDelete