Tuesday, March 27, 2007

TAR College Not Recognised

A few weeks ago, both Kian Ming and I wrote on the issue that the Malaysian government does not recognise degrees granted by the top universities in China - Peking and Tsinghua University. Currently, they don't even recognised these universities' degrees in Chinese studies. This is despite the fact that our Malaysian government recognises medical degrees from Uganda, Burma, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Iraq.

However, I just found out late last week, that even diplomas and degrees from our very own local Tunku Abdul Rahman College (TARC) which has been established for many years, and accepted widely by the Malaysian private sector, is not recognised by Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awan (JPA). Hence any TARC graduate seeking employment with the civil service will be rejected outright.

Network Engineer, Soo Pak Leong who graduated from TARC in 2003 has been applying to join the Royal Malaysian Police Force (PDRM) for the past 3 consecutive years, but has failed to be even shortlisted for an interview. Soo is now past the 25 year old limit for new PDRM recruits, and his dreams to be a police officer has effectively ended.

To fulfil his dreams of joining the force, Soo even downgraded his entry level to that of an Inspector, instead of a Cadet Assistant Superintendent (ASP) in his final application in the hope of achieving his ambitions.

Subsequently, he only found out from unofficial sources within the police force, much to his horror, that applications from TARC graduates are not accepted by the Government service.


Clarifications from the JPA (as above) confirmed that his academic qualification is "yet" to be recognised by the Government. Over the past seven months, Soo has written to all the MCA leaders and parliamentarians, the Education Ministries as well as the Prime Minister himself. He received no answers as to why his qualification cannot be recognised. YB Wee Ka Siong, MCA Youth Education bureau chief could only reply that this wasn't the first instance, and they will "pursue the issue further".

Hence this matter raises a few serious questions:
  • Firstly and obviously, what are the reasons that the Government, after so many years, is still adamant in not granting recognition of diplomas conferred by TARC, especially since TARC was set up by Barisan Nasional's very own key coalition partner, MCA. Given that many other local institutions of more dubious standing has been granted recognition, there's absolutely no reason why TARC should not be granted immediate recognition for Government employment.

  • Secondly, it raises the question as to whether the Government is indeed serious about its talk to raise the number of non-Malays in the Malaysian civil service, given that a large proportion of its students are of non-Malay origins. In fact, only last week, the leaders of PDRM have openly called for more non-Malays to join the force.

  • Thirdly, if indeed the Government has no intention of granting recognition to TARC, then it is critical for TARC administrators to make this information known to all potential students, so as to not mislead them in their future careers. While the private sector is happy to accept many of its graduates, those keen on the civil service should instead apply to other recognised colleges.
It pains me to say this, but the whole episode of the Government not granting recognition to degrees from Chinese top universities, and certificates conferred by TARC which was set up by the MCA, with the government's blessings, hints strongly at systematic disrimination by the civil service, and by implication, our top government leaders to marginalise the Chinese education community.

I hope that the Government will take immediate actions to rectify the above wrongs and demonstrate that the above is all but an exception to the rule that the Government has no intent on marginalising Malaysians of non-Malay descent.

141 comments:

dart said...

sorry if this sounds stupid...but i want to know if TARC is related to UTAR ? is there any relation betweens these two institute?...is this issue will also affect UTAR ?cos both of them using the name Tunku Abdul Rahman..thanksz..

Anonymous said...

Horrors? Pains? You seen nothing yet.

I have a friend whose son graduated from UNIMAS and applied several time to join the police. Academically qualified (even after getting a Master from local U) & physically strong. Guess what? Rejected many times.

They only wanted foot soldier.

HK

jien sing said...

If Tunku is still alive, I wonder how he would react to the government's decision in not recognizing an institution that is named after him as a sign of tribute.

How ironic that an institution, named after the great civil leader, can never contribute, to the civil service.

Putting aside the issue of discrimination, does the government even respect the name of our founding father?

a very sad m'sian,
jiensing

Anonymous said...

Jien Sing,
What an interesting statement you've made here about the institution named after one of our founding fathers. It's very ironic the way things are heading in this country.
Makes me wonder what being Malaysian really means anymore.
I hope the authorities involved will provide a credible reason why these courses are not recognized. At this time it does look like blatant discrimination & this leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

jien sing said...

to Anon,

I wish I could make myself sound more poetic and publish it in the Malay Mail...

LOL,
Jiensing

Anonymous said...

dart, UTAR is completely not related to TAR College.

Anonymous said...

Yes this is not the first time. Everyone who did their course in TARC are victims. I faced the same thing 10 years ago. Till now MCA has done nothing much about this issue. They said they appeal every year for the recognition. The answer is no every year despite its compatitive standards. No particular reasons were given.

Since the diploma and degree in TARC are not recognised by JPA, you cannot use it to apply for Masters or Phd in any local public universities. I was rejected twice by JPA into local universities, I gave up soon before waste anymore time and further studies overseas. I told my lecturers, they can't do anything. Useless MCA can't do anything for you. But YOU can do something if you have not apply to this college yet - do not apply.

If you intend to go into civil service, or further studies in local public universities later, do not ever go to TARC.

Also, don't take up the Form6 courses in TARC, it will be a waste of your valuable two years if you are thinking about any chance into local public universities!

Another thing, if you are taking an engineering degree in TARC and intend to register in BEM (Board of Engineers Malaysia) which you'll carry the Ir title after a few years working experience, you are not accepted! You are only accepted in IEM (Institute of Engineers Malaysia) which is useless.

nerdyguy said...

Dear Sdr Tony, as an avid educationist and a politician, albeit on the opposite side, I hope you can bring forth this issue to Sdr LKS in order to make a fuss in the parliament and then the mass media for public to judge the "current status" of MCA in the eyes of UMNO and other BN component parties.

C L said...

I was in TARC more than 15 yrs back and many were aware of the "unrecognised" diplomas then. The diplomas in TARC college were usually taken in conjunction with professional qualifications for recognition mainly in the UK like EC, CIMA, ACCA etc I believe.

Many were good students with STPM (not just SPM) as entry level into diplomas hence many perceive them as equivalent to degree unlike other colleges awarding diplomas with SPM entry levels. In those days, there was no such thing as private unis in M'sia as it was illegal; hence diplomas (or higher diplomas) were the only award.

I know many there who were poor students without other avenues after STPM and TARC serve them well. Private employers recruited students upon their graduations with some paying as much as an entry level degree.

Those days, TARC serve the community well, providing many with an avenue to tertiary level qualifications then before private unis and colleges boomed.

Govt recognition was seldom spoken about and private recognition locally and worldwide was what TARC sought after; more importantly private employer recognition.

My 2 sen thought from an ex-student...

Anonymous said...

Believe it or not, for a short time under the former VC Abdullah Sanusi, some of the degrees from certain faculties are not recognised due to " oversight"

Anonymous said...

When U of London discontinued the external B.Sc. program, TARC ended up with Campbell, which is a relatively little-known small college. Since then, they should have come up with a better degree program but instead they stayed with Campbell. I just visited the Campbell website and noticed that there are courses such as microelectronics, etc., in TARC that are not offered at Campbell. So, how does Campbell give TARC a degree in a course that they themselve do not have? Also, if I am not mistaken, LAN recognised the Campbell degree as a general degree. TARCians should deserve better than that and this is not LAN's fault, looking at how the degree programme is set up at TARC. But I guess people in Malaysia do not care or know the difference.

Anonymous said...

Tony: I agree with your arguments for the most part, except part of the premise for your first question, namely, I do not think the fact that "TARC was set up by Barisan Nasional's very own key coalition partner, MCA" should figure into the decision as to whether TARC diplomas should be recognized.

Anonymous said...

Eventhough TARC served the community well, it is not good enough. Many TARCians appreciate what they've got as far as education is concerned. The lecturers are excellent and indeed the graduates do very well in private sectors. But that's not the point, firstly I'm interested in why JPA does not recognise the diplomas and degrees from TARC?

There were no reasons given. What are the criterias for the recognition? Can it be one of the criteria is if your college has more than 50% chinese then, you are not recognised? If not, then why?

Secondly, what is the role of MCA in this college? Is their role is to just to present certificates to graduates during graduation ceremonies? If they are just this role, then what are their contribution to the society, if I may ask?

-ex student 2.

Anonymous said...

Cooooooll it babe!

The government recognize degrees from UTAR and AIMST!!

Recognition is not based on the name of the founder....

Campbell university as mentioned is not good enough except in making Campbell soup!

Anonymous said...

I graduated from TARC with BSc Hons Lond degree. We have known for ages that TARC diplomas are useless. The value is in the external degrees and professional qualifications. I have many friends with B.Sc. Hons (London external) from TARC who are government teachers. When I was a govt teacher, I remembered being paid just like any other honours degree. I don't know about Campbell degree, though.
It has been many, many years and I am a bit ashame that TARC has not gone far.
In my opinion, this is not the Malaysian government's fault. Before you start the flame-thrower, just know that I am a Chinese and I have the Chinese interest at heart. We, as Chinese, knew very well the rules of the game when TARC was formed as a semi-private college. We strive for an independent education system - independent Chinese High Schools, etc., for we know we would be better off that way. We knew that it was the external degrees and prof qualifications that count and we were free to set up the best twinning programmes. I also believe it was the Chinese decision to start UTAR to be a fully private autonomous university so as to be free to admit any students they want. Otherwise, the students would have to come from the same pool as in other public universities. That would have happened if TARC were to be converted to a university being semi-autonomous. In a sense, the govt has given Chinese the opportunities, though not many. We are the ones who should have seized the opportunities to make TARC and UTAR the best there is. But in my humble opinions, we Chinese are the ones who screwed up. That arrangement with Campbell, though very convenient, appears not a very good deal for most students. Maybe other TARCians from SOT and SBS can give differing opinions. Yet, the Chinese community still has full faith that they are getting the best education. I am also afraid the same decline is happening in UTAR. We should clean our own house first before we blame the govt. I am very critical of the dubious standards of many private colleges in Malaysia and I would even go to the extent of asking the govt to be even more strict in enforcing a high standard of quality for the sake of students who would be depleting their parents money. I don't care if this is MCA's college. If that MIC college is not up to par, I would say don't recognise their degrees too. It is incumbent on the colleges to make sure the parents' money are well-spent especially when we are free to set the standards.

jien sing said...

oh now I know !!!

UTAR was formed to replace KTAR !!! ic ic ... how could I be so blind all the while ???

hahahaha

Anonymous said...

Apa lah dei? Ini "so hai" mahu sertai anggota Polis kah? Enggak apa-apalah. Polis tak mahu kamu, sudahlah. Ada lagi banyak pekerjaan boleh bikin. Lagi pun gaji polis banyak kurang lah. Kamu mahu jadi seperti Albert Mah kah? Seumur hidup banteras jenayah tetapi akhirnya mati juga di tangan jenayah.

Ya ampun, Alhamdulilah. Anggaplah ini seperti rahmat Tuhan. Kerajaan enggan iktiraf ijazah TAR? Enggak apa-apalah. Kamu tengok saja siswazah dari universiti tempatan, semuanya menganggur sahaja. Pergilah ke tempat-tempat yang menghargai kamu. Pastinya ada majikan yang mahukan siswazah dari TAR.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 3/28/2007 10:30:00 AM:

"That would have happened if TARC were to be converted to a university being semi-autonomous. In a sense, the govt has given Chinese the opportunities, though not many. We are the ones who should have seized the opportunities to make TARC and UTAR the best there is. But in my humble opinions, we Chinese are the ones who screwed up."

I think you have given the wrong context here. Since you mentioned we chinese screwed up. The govt is not really sincere in helping. This is especially to the poor chinese.

Can you give me a better picture why the government does not recognise the diplomas? Tell me its standard is not enough. Or just because the college is halfly subsidised by the government?

Are you aware how many poor chinese will be affected if it were to become a fully private autonomous university? The cost structure will change tremendously, probably 6 - 7 times fold.

It was not an opportunity but just a gimmic a far as the poor chinese are concerned. They can't afford 6,000 - 7,000 fees a year!

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous poster above:
How do you want the govt to recognise TARC diploma? As equivalent to a degree? Then that would make TARC a degree-granting college, i.e. university status. If the govt recognises the diploma as a lower-grade diploma, then you are not going to be happy with a lower salary. So, the obvious solution is to use the external qualifications which the govt does not prevent TARC from doing. TARC knew the "rules of the game" right from the beginning. This arrangement is nothing new. I realise TARC caters to the poor. But money is money and more so for the poor. Mind you many are simple country folks who don't know much about higher education. So, it is all the more important for students from TARC to be given the best deal possible by enabling them to get a qualification more widely accepted even for postgraduate studies overseas. I read that right now students have to go to UK to "top up" and not everybody can afford that. By the way, does anybody know what the students would get after "topping up"? Do they get a brand new honours degree from UK? LAN aleady listed degree from Campbell University as a general degree, and there is a long list of other US degrees listed as equivalent to honours if the GPA is above a certain value, which is reasonable. I don't need to spell out the solution because it is obvious. I have spoken my mind here and I know my opinion is extreme in a sense but I am a realist. I shouldn't be here and I won't bother replying but I respect your opinion even if you disagree.

Anonymous said...

I think in general, MOE may recognise 3+0 if it is LAN accredited. As for "topping up " whether done locally or in the award giving U country, MOE may not be giving approval on that.
Prospect students must check with MOE and that particular U and the college concerned.

just curious ..

Anonymous said...

"TARC knew the "rules of the game" right from the beginning."

I was against your opinion about "we chinese screwed up", TARC does not represent the chinese community. May be it's TARC decision not take the government offers, but that's not what the chinese wants. I hope you get my message now.

Anonymous said...

To the anon above:
I suggest you read that comments of 3/28/2007 10:30 am carefully particularly about institutional autonomy. Try reading in between the lines. Jien Sing immediately saw the light and I thought it was common knowledge why UTAR was set up. The solution of having UTAR and TARC is not a problem. In fact, it was a courageous move that makes a lot of sense. The arrangement makes sure that they are free to admit anybody, who in this case happen to be predominantly Chinese and at the same time still keep the partial govt support for TARC. The problem is in safeguarding the quality. There is a saying that you get what you pay for but it does not need to be that way especially when it is still expensive for most family to go to TARC. You don't have to sacrifice quality and be a cheaper alternative at the same time. I am not going to get into the argument about the connection between Chinese and TARC. It would be a waste of time and bandwidth for something commonly known. Maybe I should just cut to the chase and spell it out clearly for you. How do you feel if TARC is a university and you are told to take in 50% from the pool of applicants to public universities together with the affirmative action? What would be the chances of being admitted for most of the students at TARC presently studying there? There are already numerous posters on this blog decrying the low quality twinning programmes of some of the private colleges. TARC was formed long before many of these colleges and they should be the cream of the crop at this point. We just have to recognise there is a problem in order to find a solution. Otherwise, we stay as we are

jien sing said...

It is very sad to know that Malaysian tertiary education is held bondage to government interference and meddling (I like to repeat myself with this sentence, just can't help it).

I suppose, setting up an institution for the better-ment of the Chinese community should be followed by a proper naming of the institution...

If 'they' were to show how independent the school needs to be from the majority-dominated government, that it is meant to cater for the neglected minority, and how serious 'they' are in 'their' commitments, then it MIGHT (yes, in capital letters) help if the school is named after something that relates more to being a Chinese-Malaysian...

The name of the new institution should by itself project the intended reasons for its existence in the first place (e.g. The Chinese Independent University of Malaysia?)... Not being racy here (if you think I am, then what can I say)... itz just my random thought on the issue of branding...

I think the whole notion of naming the institution after TAR (especially UTAR) is the legacy that Chinese-Malaysians should always show how grateful they are for being allowed to reside in Malaya (sensitive subject to many, i know, i know). Anything that deviates away from the established dogmas is nothing but heresy. But, the previous generation can only do so much given such a small political capital.

Previously, I did say that "something that relates more to being a Chinese-Malaysia". But, before anyone accuses me of being unpatriotic/racist, well i'm not. You're not dealing with a chinese redneck here. If we were to define patriotism in terms of one's contribution to the country, then the issue of race should play no part.

Giving the school a more Chinese name is not a 'bad' thing (however defined/...or 'made-up'). The response of the government in allowing the Chinese to name the institutions by themselves would be a gauge that measures the role that it wants Chinese-Malaysians play in the country. If there were to be a problem of excessive interference, the name/brand should lend some weight to its cause and grivances.

Anyhow, just a thought and I don't assert my beliefs on others. If you think my topic is 'terpesong' then I am guilty as charged ...LOL

lalalala,
jiensing



*this issue of naming something in order to gain political clout/weight was vividly explained in Hernado De Soto's book called "The Other Path: The economic answer to terrorism" where he explains how the squatters gain acreage from the public (or even private) domains.

Anonymous said...

The MCA has a big responsibility to forewarn the Chinese community that TARC degrees are NOT recognised by the government. This info should be published in all news media in the country so that the poor will not be duped/cheated into wasting their money on unrecognised courses. Those who wish to further their education in TARC will then knowingly do so at their own peril

jien sing said...

M.C.A. = Make Chinese Angry ???

Dude, be more specific okay... muahaha...

i'm lame... so lame...

Anonymous said...

Ask Ong Ka Ting and Ling Leong Sick
wat they did for TARC??
If they dont answer well...all vote DAP!!

Anonymous said...

The college can not become a university or funds from the authorities as subsidy will be stopped. That is the sad state of affairs. Thus, all I can deduce is the qualifications from the college is in a state of limbo which is exactly what some in politics want.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps by changing the name to Badawi College will do the trick. I doubt that even Mahathir College will be recognized.

This is what the country is like today, with the top management happily enjoying their huge Double Layer Swiss Chocolate cakes while the citizen suffers. When Singapore's Lee openly criticized Malaysia for marginalising Chinese, they responded quickly, especially MCA and Gerakan, rebuking his remarks. Lee is gentleman enough to even appologize, but our own leaders? I admire Lee for his responsibility and honour. People in BN don't even dare to admit mistakes but continue to provide thousands of excuses and blaming other people. One current happening is blaming "certain political parties" for misleading the public with the untrue.

It is really sad to see that after 50 years, we are even worst in the mentality compared to half a century ago. We have a corrupted government and serious racial segregation. Our competitiveness in the global investment sphere is deteriorating significantly, let alone our education standard. Even Korea, which started of with the same GDP almost similar to ours, farly ahead of us today, almost 5 times. Can anyone explain this?

People may argue that we do advanced in terms of certain technology, but our mentality do not. Thanks to the way the education is shaped that makes us conform to the teaching of BN. Education has been used to implement certain pro-BN propaganda to make sure that they will forever in power. Such concept is not unique to Malaysia, as Singapore and China practice them as well.

And now they want to close down vernacular schools, which i believe is the pillar for preventing further plunge in our competitiveness. If vernacular schools were closed 50 years ago, i strongly doubt that we will be even here today, but possibly matching the African countries.

If the current government is sincere enough, they should learn to admit their mistakes and failures. If not, the people will only view them as people who doesn't have any honour. It even amazes me that someone who proclaim to be very religious, has skewed and deviated seriously from his own teaching.

To summarise, let's indulge in Lincoln's famous remarks in Gettysburg, 1863:

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Anonymous said...

Anon of 3/29/2007 04:36:00 PM got it right. That is what I have been trying to say in my previous postings above and some people still cannot get it.
In summary, if you want TARC to have university status and keep the subsidy, then you have no control on who you admit. The same public universities admissions board will determine the admissions for you which is logical because you are taking govt subsidy.. If you want university status and not govt subsidy, then you get UTAR. It is therefore important that TARC improves its twinning programmes especially with a major university that LAN already recognised. That would put pressure on the govt to recognise the ext degree; otherwise the external twinning univ (especially if it is a major one) may decide not to recognise Malaysian degrees for postgraduate programmes (tit for tat) and the other university can also make some noise in the US college community because the US academia is big on educational freedom -- I may be naive in my thinking here. But for over 20 years since the termination of the U of Lond external BSc programme, TARC has not progressed beyond its present twinning programmes. That really shows complacency and probably misplaced confidence. That is the reason why I made the extreme comment that we screwed up. At the moment, it appears the govt has the excuse that the present ext degree is not up to par which is correct is some sense, besides the politics. This argument is more directed toward those with SAS diploma which is what that student trying to get into the police force got, and may not apply to SOT and SBS.
Come to think of it, I have never heard (maybe I am wrong) of other US universities giving just general degrees which is just what TARC is getting. I would think that many major US universities would give honorific recognition such as cum laude, magna cum laude, summa cum laude, etc., to denote the level of the CGPA (at least 3.0 to get cum laude) all of which exceeds the minimum requirement for honours equivalent (I think CGPA of 2.5) required by LAN. Note that this is for major US universities already recognised by LAN. By the way, TARC already stated clearly that theirs is a general degree programme and you need to top up by going to UK if you want to.

Anonymous said...

over 20 years...there must be 1000's of Campbell ext degree holders out there..why no response from them? we need their comments to help understand this thing.

Anonymous said...

I just visited Campbell university website and they mentioned 25 years of cooperation. They do give honorific title to their bachelor degrees -- cum laude (GPA 3.4), magna cum laude (3.6), and summa cum laude (3.9). Do TARC students get those? So, that makes no difference to LAN..everything is equivalent to general degree of local public univ.
I remember visiting Campbell univ website in the past and they used to have a special link on their front page welcoming TARC students. They used to call TARC their extended campus. Now that special link disappeared and you have to go to their "Study Abroad" and "College of Arts and Sciences" web pages to find just a couple of paragraphs mentioning TARC. Are they downgrading their relationship? This is getting strange.
This blog thing is addictive...I need to get a life..oh my god.

Anonymous said...

TARC students do get cum laude, etc.

dracula77 said...

I'm not surprised..:-) Few years ago, I was told that some courses at 'public' university colleges (Now Full Universities)was not acredited including engineering. If some courses at 'public universities' was not recognised, what do you expect for TARC or other colleges???

jien sing said...

to Anonymous 3/29/2007 07:53:00 PM,

i think changing the name to Badawi or Mahathir college might help ... given that degrees from University Tun Abdul Razak are recognized... it might be all because of SOMEBODY's in the Cabinet...

good comments, i like the Lincoln thing that you wrote :-)

oh yeah, heard of Frederick Douglass and W.E.B. Du Bois? they are darn good writers too even though they are often overlooked

cheers,
jiensing

Anonymous said...

Millions of apologies to all. I made a mistake in my postings above. It was JPA website not LAN that listed Campbell University's BS degrees as equivalent to general degrees from local univ. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

About the "topping up", it appears like TARCians do get the UK degree as well. I went around digging and found something interesting.
Looking at websites of TARC, Sheffield Hallam, Liverpool John Moores, and then checking with JPA's interactive website, these are the results for just some courses:

TARC Adv Dip Sc Computer Science & Statistics : will get Sheffield Hallam University BSc(Hon) Information Technology
at JPA website: Look up Teknologi Maklumat/Information Technology ...you get No UK university, only Australia, Malaysia, NZ

TARC Adv Dip Sc Chemistry & Biology : will get Liverpool John Moores University BSc(Hons) Chemistry and Biology
at JPA website: look under Sains, then UK, then Liverpool John Moores University --
You will see a long list that includes Applied Chemistry, Applied Biology, etc., but no such degree as Chemistry and Biology

TARC Adv Dip Sc Microelectronics and Physics : will get Liverpool John Moores BEng (Hons) Microelectronics Engineering
at JPA website: under Liverpool John Moores University - no such degree listed ..not even under Kejuruteraan Elektronik

It started to stink so bad that I stopped looking at other courses. Maybe you all can continue lah...just make sure degree name exactly the same. Applied Chemistry no same as Chemistry and Biology lah..OK?

It appears from the Sheffield Hallam and Liverpool John Moores websites that those degree courses were set up either just for TARC or also for other British Higher National Diploma (HND) institutions for topping up purposes. Maybe their own students don't take those courses. How to do one honours year in one semester? Do you know these Sheffield Hallam and John Moores were previously polytechnics colleges? I didn't.

I have a bachelor degree (don't ask from where lah) and I am soooo confused here. I guess that police Inspector with SPM trying to do a first cut of the candidates must be more confused. ...Apa ni? Can masuk or not? ..No wonder, that poor guy could not get into the police college. He wouldn't even make the first cut.

If for me, I won't even bother to go "top up"...if I have to spend the money, might as well take the money and my Campbell degree to the US and get a master...maybe the Americans don't know the difference. Hope they didn't read that anonymous posting of 3/27/2007 11:14:00 PM saying Campbell doesn't even have some of those degree courses at TARC. These Campbell people are Baptist church people..so should feel bad too. No?

That anonymous poster of 3/29/2007 07:46:00 AM ...I thought he was a cuckoo because he used all bold letters screaming at you...but now I think he may be right..and maybe he knows something we don't. i now agree with him that TARC should inform people or clarify at the TARC website, because I was fooled too thinking that the UK degrees must be OK...as for MCA..don't know what to do with them lah..and my nephew also went to UK for top up..gosh..need to call him tonight to give him a piece of my mind.

Can somebody do something about this? Has this really been going on for over 20 years?
I think this would be a tasty morsel for Lim Kit Siang! Somebody should tell him...not me lah..So shameful for Chinese.

Anonymous said...

Is that JPA website accurate? I just tried looking up my old TARC BSc London ext. My God, it is not there? This doesn't sound good. Can somebody help explain? So ther is a chance TARC's UK top up degrees are good? Please give some info. Thanks in advance.

Anonymous said...

The BN Government is forever cheating the non-Malays. MCA is useless especially with Ong Ka Ting the small boy. They are all useless. We Chinese cannot depend on them. We have to go back to the Opposition again now that the Ling Era is over.

PKR seems quite reasonable now. The Rocket can take us high and far faster.

Come this Machap by-election, and the coming General Election, let us throw them out.

Anonymous said...

I am here to reconfirm that SAS TARCians (at least Chemistry and Biology graduates, if not all SAS graduates) do get honor title like summa cum laude (3.9-4.0), Magna cum laude (3.6-3.8999), and cum laude (3.4-3.5999)(2004 grading system). If someone were to look at US educational system (web references) there are other titles named egregia cum laude and rite (for those without above mentioned honor)but both of them are not applicable to TARCians. I myself experienced LOADS of barriers in furthering my postgraduate studies locally. I was rejected by private institution because Campbell degree is not recognized by LAN in applying for MSc/PhD, and because Campbell degree is not an honor degree, I am not eligible to teach in higher education in MALAYSIA (that's means i can't even apply as TA). BUT, what is their criteria and definition for HONORS degree? A fren of mine went to a public Uni and he was replied something like this: "oh... we do not have any form that can be sold to TARCians in applying for postgraduate studies". Can someone please explain? Is that means TARCian can go no where after graduating even with something like BSc summa cum laude, or magna cum laude, or cum laude? We want to progress but it turns out that we can't go to either private or public U .

One question: Is Campbell degree not recognized internationally? I am not sure about other countries but at least UK . Please read the following cases (they are real cases).

One student successively accepted and completed his Masters in UK and he was offered a scholarship for his PhD studies. He is currently pursuing his studies & research.

Another student accepted and completed his Masters as well in UK and he was too, offered a scholarship for his PhD.

Another guy is accepted and offered a scholarship for his MSc studies based on his academic achievement at undergraduate level.

Still another student, upon completed her BSc, went for medical studies for postgraduate entry (non UK), she made it!

One last point, you think it yourself: Is there any TARCian successively completed masters studies at local U? U bet!

coleong said...

I don't know about whether TARC graduate is recognised or not. My brother graduated from the EE course (advance diploma) was offered a place to do his master in University of Warwick which is one of the top in UK. It was probably about 10 years ago. In fact, some of his friends also completed the Master in Warwick and doing quite well. In fact, the advance diploma of TARC used to be recognised as equivalent to Bachelor Degree in the UK. previously.

Anonymous said...

See what I said above. When you write B.S.(suma cum laude) (Campbell), the US universities won't know it is a general degree and take it as regular US-equivalent degree. Also, be careful when somebody told you he got scholarship for PhD in UK. Sometime it is only partial discount of tuition fees and no living expenses.I see no point to top up if even the "top up' degree not recognised in Malaysia. Unless you want to continue study in UK. Then OK lah. Otherwise, I take the money and go to the US. But I heard their grad study in US even at Master is tough, especially for TARCians. You all study too many things superficially. I feel real bad for you all. I think because your degrees not recognised by govt, you all will get exploited by private sector because they know you cannot go elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

I just came back from TARC website and noticed that they are even bolder now in the descriptions of their Campbell degree courses. They used to state clearly that it was a 'generalist' diploma but now no mention of general degree at all. I think as long as there are students willing to enrol, they will just keep doing what they are doing.

Anonymous said...

Why didn't TARC ask those UK uni to give them those degrees already recognised by JPA instead of some strange combinations that JPA can delete from their long lists of degrees?

Anonymous said...

I think I see the light. It suddently hit me trying to figure out the problems here. JPA said Campbell degree is general degree but that is the original one direct from Campbell. TARC's Campbell courses not recognised by LAN locally which means no recognition by JPA of TARC's campbell BS. Is that right? Holy smoke. Why didn't they tell people for so many years?

tim said...

One thing for sure is for those non-malay graduates who have graduated are they prefer to develop elsewhere, most probably US, UK, Singapore and Australia.

They need not to come back as the Umno government doesn't give a damn of the non-malay graduates background. What the prime minister is more interested is developing his own religion and race. But still the non-malays can afford to emigrate and develop elsewhere.

Is not that we choose to follow this way, but instead we are being forced to develop elsewhere. Everyday I am sick of hearing their sweet promises and excuses. Today I give you this and that. Tomorrow comes something else. In the end it was a pure rotten egg.

No wonder I got 5 out of 10 friends settling down in Australia after their graduations. Ask them about the Malaysia politics, none are interested. Ask them about the local education system, none are bothered. So I ask them why do they come back to Malaysia during holidays!

Well, the answer is to renew their passport or IC. Most come back to meet up with old friends and to celebrate new year with their beloved families. That is it. A simple well-mannered honest answer.

Nobody would say I would come back for the national day or even during Agung birthday. The sense of patriotism just isn't there.

I am saddened and confused for this ongoing bias treatment from the government. My final piece of advice for those who is studying overseas. Don't waste your time ever by coming back unless the government changes its policy. Try to develop elsewhere.

Good luck.

romsam said...
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shinwee said...

My uncle left Malaysia in the 1970s. He graduated from MIT and did his PhD in Yale on computer science. I dare say, that was when computer science era just starting.

He was a very patriotic man, a scout graduated from Royal Military College. He came back to Malaysia after his PhD to serve this country. Looked for a job in University Malaya. They told him point blank, we have openings, but it is only for bumi.

He left for greener pastures in United States. Has been a US citizen for a few decades now. He has contributed widely to the field of computer science and is still doing so.

He never forgave Malaysia for turning their backs to him. And I guess he never will.

oversee said...
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Anonymous said...

I understand that we are all frustrated with the racial issues in Malaysia. But we are also trying to discuss about TARC and to exchange ideas about what to do. So I beg you, please don't clutter this discussion thread because it is now very difficult to find postings relevant to TARC and its useless diplomas. I know the issues are related but those discussions are not helpful here for TARC students and graduates.

Anonymous said...

To All TARC SAS students and graduates:
What would you all have preferred? If we keep fees out of the discussion, would you prefer to force TARC to send all interested diploma graduates to UTAR to complete the final phase of the degree programmes, since UTAR is recognised? It appears that the Adv Dip Campbell programme is the one that has caused a lot of heartache and disappointment especially for those unable to go overseas whom I supposed is the majority. Was it Ong or Ling who once was reported in the newspapers as saying that the country still needed technicians which was the reason to keep TARC after the formation of UTAR? I thought at that time that it was a disgrace and a disappointment to reduce the role of TARC to just producing technicians instead of engineers.

Anonymous said...

I am disillusioned by the disrecognition of diplomas from TAR college. This college has served thousands of people who could not be admitted into the public universities. During the 70s and 80s, TAR was the main college for non-bumis. They had high standards and their diplomas were recognized as equivalent to the bachelors degree. Malaysian Chinese should not think of anger over this issue.. How about being cooperative and discuss among ourselves to find out how we can overcome this obstacle.
Migrating overseas is not the answer to this solution of discrimination. All over the world discrimination exists. I do not believe that it is a smart move to pack up your bags and leave. Remember, no where is green pastures. You are misled by believing that life in Australia, UK, Canada, US or Singapore should be less discriminative than at home. Open your eyes and do your research before you ever make a move.
I have been educated overseas and lived there for 2 decades. All this while, I have no real friends. Jobs are at will employment. Hatred towards orientals, jealousy, discrimination and etc. exist daily. I have not met a single white or black person who is honest.
I have tried to do my own business. It is tough work having to start at 6:00 a.m. and end at 8:00 p.m. I am a sole proprietor and thus all responsibilities fall on me. This is a unique small business and I have very little competition. This is my rice bowl.
I regret leaving Malaysia because I want to be associated with my homeland. I want to be connected back to my native land. Everywhere we go, we will always end up as second or third class citizens.. My advice is that non-bumis must be patient. "Sabar sampai tua, tuhan akan mendengar perdoaan kami."

Anonymous said...

I am also a TARC graduate of the BSc London era. I agree that everywhere we go, there will be discrimination. But everywhere else, it is more meritocracy than skin color or race. I have known of many Malaysians with outstanding jobs overseas that many can only dream about at home because they don't have the means and qualifications to go out. Malaysians can do well outside because they work real hard to stand above the crowd. It is tough but life for us will never be easy if we are not prepared to work. There are no two ways about that. The problem is that this TARC college thing is a festering issue for students at home in Malaysia that affects thousands of students and many from poor families. Just imagine..25 years and no improvement at all? At least in my time, we could be govt teachers. Some of my classmates with TARC's BSc London degrees are still govt teachers. So, the argument here is either they find a new well-recognised twinning partner or move students to UTAR for completion of the degree course. Those who stay behind need their recognised diplomas.
I suggest that SAS Tarcians come out here to say whether they want anything changed.

Anonymous said...

... or move students to UTAR for completion of the degree course? Reading the 2 UTAR posts in this blog I found most of the complaints from students are that it is run the way as in TARC. Both UTAR and TARC are managed the same way. Will history repeat itself? Wait another 30 years to find out.

Anonymous said...

To the anon of 3/31/2007 12:07:00 PM:
I am a former Malaysian non-Bumi. I am now in a job overseas that I would never get if I were in Malaysia. When I come across an outstanding paper in a scientific journal, and then look at the author's name, I don't see the color or his race or his look. I see only the quality of his work. When the white people read the same paper, they don't see the color or the race too. They also see the quality of the work. They will even learn how to pronounce his name. That is why Malaysians can excel just like anybody else if given fair opportunities. I speak with Malaysian accent and I speak in front of white people, arguing my points whether they like my accent or not. Because over here, if you don't speak up you are not doing your job. When I am out in the town and doing grocery shopping, of course there will be discrimination; but I don't let that ruin my life because I have money in my pocket to buy what I want to buy good food. I have to work very hard to get to where I am. Although I have to admit I am slacking off now. In my tough time, I always remind myself that I am doing it for my family, so that my wife and daughter can have a better life. My daughter speaks just like the white and her best friends are white. Don't you think it would be crazy for me to take her home to Malaysia for good? I am the first generation in this country and it is OK for me to suffer a bit. I can always go to Malaysia for a holiday and I don't miss it a bit.
The main thing is that many Malaysians who excel overseas do so with their second or graduate degrees, not with the degrees they got in Malaysia. So, I don't discourage these TARCians to go overseas because they need to do it to get a second degree to remove that stain from TARC. In fact, I would encourage them if ever they have the opportunities. The sad thing is many would not be able to do so, and you cannot be telling these kids to be "sabar sampai tua..". If I had that attitude, I would still be in Malaysia, doing God knows what. I hope the blog administrator is not going to delete this comment because I want TARCians to see both sides of the argument and encourage them to be proactive about their future.

ruyom said...
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CB said...

Probably some of you are right: stop discussing something bad and unfair and look for the way out instead. I guess that would be the best thing that former/prospective/current students would rather be happy to read. I understand that we were "mistreated" somehow and we ought to be angry, frustrated and whatever you can name it (I did honestly), but complaining and blaming will lead us nowhere. I was a SAS TARCian, with Campbell. I too, faced a lot of problems in furthering postgraduate studies in MALAYSIA (yes,MALAYSIA). LAN said one thing and JPA said another. Private institution (Not TARC apparently) talked about east and public U talked about west! I had all the facts and found loopholes here and there and argued as well as defenced mine position and situation. I used nearly 2 years in digging, researching, understanding, approaching key personnels, etc... and guess what, NO ANSWER! I sincerely sympathies all the TARC staffs involved because they too, worked very very hard, and in fact the hardest, in gaining a recognition, whatever.

What i really want to share here is, being frank, don't feel bad that you are/were TARCian or Campbell grad! Be proud of it! YES, proud of it. I know there are fewer ways (not completely none) for us but believe it or not, we can and in fact, we did survived. For those that want to further their studies, I personally suggest you to look for the ways to go oversea. If you are good, they take you in, I agree the fact that meritocracy wins skin color and race oversea, at least UK (I have been living in UK since 2 years). Yes, discrimination is there, anywhere, but my experience tells me that out of 100 people that i met, only 2-3 people that behave sarcastically. Remember one thing, human rights are respected and well practiced here. Leaving for oversea doesn't mean that you are not patriotic because you will always have the chance to come back and serve, haven't you? Consider these: better chance? better facility? better pay? more freedom?

For those that can't afford, there are ways (legally of course) for you to collect the money. Go out and start your search right now. ASK and READ and EXPLORE. Have faith in yourself, you can make it real! I know, cos I have gone thru it. I was once couldn't afford even to buy an air ticket!

I have some real life experiences that would like to share:

Nottingham Trent Uni International Officer once said to me: TAR College.. we know that institution.. It is one of the best tertiary education provider.... The relevant department's head said: I am sure I will bring your details back to the UK and discuss with the professor to see how we can help you. Correspondence continued.

Royal Holloway: we are pleased to inform you that we would like offer you a place at XXX for XXX YYY (course details).

A General practitioner (UK) said: You know more than me!

A local (MYS) family clinic doctor asked: where did you study? what have you studied? (I know too much and undertand what he had said).

I applied to Uni in UK and successfully offered scholarship (although not full, but better than I couldn't get into postgrad studies in MYS for no obvious reason) for postgrad studies.

Employer (MYS): I like TARCian because they are taught in English. Over the years, I appreciate them cos they work extremely hard to excel themselves. The training and level of pressure that they had gone thru make them a better employee.

From a lecturer at TARC when she was driving and a man asked her when she stop at the traffic light: (Q)Where are you going? (A)
TARC. The man: oh... the good college that produces good quality student.

I hope this msg will lighten some of you out there.

nerd said...

For those who'd like to know whether the certs obtained are recognised or not by the Gov( JPA), here's the site. Good luck.
Recognised?

Anonymous said...

It appears from reading all the postings that TARC and MCA-dominated college council just never bother one way or another. Seeing that many other private colleges (with predominantly Chinese students too) and UTAR have been recognised by LAN on course by oourse basis, something appears to be very wrong with TARC. Has TARC been too arrogant thinking that with MCA backing that they didn't bother to work out differences with LAN? I cannot understand 25 years of intrasigence. It is time for TARC people to come to this board and explain what they have done for the students.

Anonymous said...

Listen here all SAS TARCians:
I have been reading the tragic stories here and after some research and asking around, here is one solution.
If you have genuinely been misled and fooled by this TARC-Campbell fiasco, and think that it should be stopped to prevent other students from poor families from wasting their money, then this is one sure effective way to get the attention of Campbell.
Campbell University's TARC courses are accredited by Commission on Colleges Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) in the US. Every US colleges and schools (even primary schools) have to be accredited by their regional accrediting body. Without accreditation, their students cannot received scholarships or loans, and their institutions cannot receive govt grants. This is serious business for them. Colleges and schools are afraid of review by their accrediting bodies.
In Campbell's case, SACS is the accrediting body. You can file a complaint to SACS by downloading this form at:
http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/081705/complaintpolicy.pdf
Print out this form, and complete them. Then mail it off, best by registered mail or courier. Then sit back and wait for the fireworks to start.
You can act individually or you can act in several groups with your stories, etc. Explain how this SACS accredited courses have fooled you and affected your futures and that SACS is helping perpetrate this unfairness on unsuspecting students. Also point out that Campbell offering degrees for even courses they don't have at Campbell itself which is not logical. (Campbell does not have Engineering school and yet you have microelectronics, etc., at TARC SAS).
Now you have this information, it is in your hand. If you want to be fair, make a copy of your complaint forms and send to Campbell university informing them you all are filing complaints at SACS. I guarantee you immediate reactions.
But one thing to know...this is not the time for anonymity. You have to put your real names. So it is up to you. Tell this to your friends who never read blogs. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

Couldn't sleep so went googling and saw this news brief article (under Oct 16, 2003 posting) about TARC way back in 2003 at:
http://www.mynewsfocus.com/grapevinetales/gt2003.htm
Can some knowledgeable person familiar with this story tell us what happens later? I guess they reversed the decision if TARC-Campbell thing still going on? Reading that article, it appears the Ling might have been correct to channel graduating students to UTAR. That would have reduced the problems of unrecognised diploma at SAS instead of prolonging them. Thanks in advance for anybody that replies.
----------------
Severing the Twinning Ties
Sources close to Tunku Abdul Rahman College (TARC) revealed that the board chairman Dr. Ling Liong Sik had unilaterally terminated the twinning program with Campbell University (USA) and Sheffield Polytechnic (UK). Such move was designed to create the surging rise of student population in the budding Tunku Abdul Rahman University (UTAR) with the obvious presumption that those who opt out of TAR College would definitely enroll at UTAR.
It was learnt that such a move was initiated without the prior knowledge, much less the approval of the entire College Board and the MCA Central Committee. Several Team A leaders once aligned to Dr. Ling expressed shock over such a contemplation as the planned cessation of twinning would precipitate the slow death of TAR College, but need not necessarily give UTAR a strong boost in terms of student enrolment.
----------------------

takut-to-reveal-my-name-lah said...

UMNO-nomics:

Issue =
TARC is nowadays regarded as an institution where those who couldn't afford go, not for its quality. This means that good students who went there because they can't afford other alternatives.

Answer =
So, want to make TARC better? Make the population poorer !!!

Anonymous said...

Self confession..after readings the postings here, I thought it was more a mismanagement and policy mistakes at TARC because all the twinning arrangements do not make academic sense. But then when I read that 4/01/2007 11:49:00 am posting, I then realized that the TARC college council (and even MCA central committee ??) played a very significant role. Who are those people?..MCA people. Now I come to the sad realization. Both TARC and MCA are really hopeless. Now with all the bad rumors about UTAR, I think they should just let TARC and UTAR run by real academic professionals instead of half-past-six politicians. I used to be neutral but now I know MCA is just hopeless.

Dr Ling So Sick said...

Being honest..TARC is better off than UTAR!
Whether their degrees (TARC) is recognised is not that important. I always have respects for TARC graduates than UTAR

Chins up TARC grads!

UR all the best!

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Anonymous said...

I find it intriguing that a blog on the issue of TARC has become a manifesto for leaving malaysia. Doesn't it seems that we are falling into the trap set by the biased policy? To promote the exodus of other non-malay citizen from the country in order to create a more hegomoneous society.
Isn't it more worthwhile to stay back and fight for equal right as citizen of this country and for the sacrifices of our ancestors who toiled their lives to make this place our home.

Anonymous said...

Go and read this:

http://www.littlespeck.com/region/CForeign-My-070330.htm

While the country is sliding into darkness, these people still have time fighting for their own cause.

Anonymous said...

I am strongly disagree that TARC staffs (some of them, if not all) did nothing in fighting all the unfair and mistreated stuffs. In fact, not only TARC staffs but those remain to be P&C (those with higher position in the community).The problems are: LAN should not interfere with TARC in either educational systems or recognition because LAN is only responsible for private institution (IPTS) while TARC is the only government sponsored college in MYS (YES, THE ONLY ONE)(I am sorry that I can't disclose the reference). All the higher edu institutions like UM, UPM...(IPTA) will then be held responsible under ministry of higher education (MOHE). But one thing, you can never find TARC infor in the MOHE website. Why is that? You know the answer. From PTPTN website, TARC is under IPTA, not IPTS. Funny? Still another thing, all the IPTAs are required to re-submit their syallabi for re-evualuation at the moment and TARC is doing the same thing as DEMANDED, not REQUESTED. (Note the difference between request and demand). They do not recognise TARC, but why are they DEMANDED TARC to do the same thing like other IPTAs?

If someone ask you to get the school accreditation letter for your Dip/ Adv Dip studies, you can never get that from TARC because TARC is considered IPTA and no such letter can be produced. Has anyone ask for accreditation letter from a grad from any IPTA in MYS? NO! But that happen for TARC grads!

If someone is IPTA grad, they can work in civil services and they can further their studies based on their qualification obtained, and they are JPA recognised. Then, TARC?

so what's the problem?
CHINESE's college? Clear position of TARC; IPTA or IPTS? Why they do not want to announce the clear status of TARC after so many years of fighting, discussion , and arguement? Who are there trying to suppress or hold TARCians back? Who are there trying to make things slow and postponed?

Anonymous said...

Thanks anonymous of 4/01/2007 10:44:00 PM for shedding some light on the problems. I am not a politician, so what does P&C stands for?
Isn't it true that TARC is technically only half-sponsored and should not technically be considered full IPTA?
As pointed posters have pointed out in previous postings several days ago, if you are fully recognised as IPTA, wouldn't the student admissions be controlled by MOHE?
I can see the dilemma here, that TARC wants to keep the admission policy and yet wants to be IPTA.
So, is TARC so stubborn that they rather not play their games, disregarding the future of their students?
If the govt wants LAN to certify the twinning courses, then go ahead and do that. I would also agree LAN should do that because looking at the situation right now, it appears that Campbell University is just lending its name. Note the word "appears" which I can expand to say that at first glance that is what it looks like. Who provides oversight of your Engineering degrees when Campbell does not have that expertise since they don't have Engineering faculty? In my opinion, if TARC had submitted to LAN and had the twinning programmes recognised, you would have saved a lot of problems for a lot of these students for so many years. You all have been waiting 25 years posturing here and there and being intrasigent, what do you expect to happen in another 25 years? For the BN govt to disappear?
If you claim they want to hold you back, then submit to LAN and see what happens. I know UTAR is private but if UTAR can get recognised through LAN, your argument of being held back is not trully valid.

Anonymous said...

I think these blog is cluttered again. Probably the administrator needs to do some cleaning up.

Anonymous said...

Further to what the anon said above, TARC is half IPTA and half IPTS, giving the unique position of getting partial govt support and yet control its student admissions. So, I would agree since it is half IPTS, to certifiy through LAN and let the students have recognised external degrees.

Anonymous said...

I agreed with what anon said above.
If I were to arbitrate, looking from outside, the solution is clear.
TARC wants to control admission (like IPTS) and wants subsidy (like IPTA), then should submit to both LAN and MOHE.
TARC is taking govt money, so MOHE can demand to see TARC's syllabi, etc.
You cannot claim like IPTA when it comes to course issues and then claim to be IPTS when it comes to selecting students.
If you want half-IPTS and half-IPTA, then follow both LAN's and MOHE's rules.
Is that so difficult?
Like the saying, when two elephants (TARC and govt) fight, the grass got trampled. In this case, the grass is the poor students.
Don't the MCA lawyers ever tell you this things which are so obvious?
Wise-up, MCA.

coolooc said...
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jien sing said...

Tony,

I think it's time you start an article on IPTA or immigration right now...

hehe

julee said...
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Anonymous said...

I wonder, for those who has stay in oversea, are they really have a happier life as compared to in Malaysia. Note that I use the word "happy". No doubt, country like US, UK and Singapore definitely provide a better job opportunity and career development. It's a no brainer to go overseas for these purposes. But for life, are they and their family really living a better lifestyle than in Malaysia. I'm not talking about material satisfaction but more about family, friends and culture. Can you really blend in to the foreign culture that well as in Malaysia where you,ve good and best friends that will come out for mamak anytime. Just wondering

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Anonymous said...

Tony:
These recent postings look very similar to those deleted previously for being out of topic. So, you need to set up another discussion thread for these people to vent their thoughts on emigration, etc.,so that TARCians can discuss the important issues of their diplomas.

Tony P said...

Hi guys,

Please ignore the above deleted mails. They are all posted by a single sick nothing-better-to-do rascist under different monikers, abusing the fact that I don't 'moderate' the comments.

Tony

Anonymous said...

Now that most of the experienced and good track record players ( esp. those with full campus facilities ) in the education industry have and are requesting MOE to be upgraded to college university status, maybe TARC trustees should join in the current fad to ask to be upgraded to be a degree granting instituition..

Would this solve anything ?

..just curious

Anonymous said...

It comes to nothing just 'upgrading' colleges to universities if it is just another rebranding exercise!

What is important to TARC, remain as what they are and improve the quality of education provided.
Let the public and the world be the judge!

As far as I have experienced TARC graduates can put to shame a lot of our IPTA graduates

Anonymous said...

To the anon of 4/02/2007 07:56:00 AM:
Since Tony has left your posting on, I guess I can give my opinion eventhough it is out of topic, except for TARCians thinking of going overseas.
As many posters have mentioned in this and other blogs.
Nobody said life is easy in other countries. You still have to work very hard to be stand above the rest, especially people of that country. Because unless you are already a citizen, priority goes first to the people there and you have to be better than them to be hired. Since it is more meritocracy, life at work is more predictable.
That said, as a first generation of my family, I don't mind suffering if I have to in this foreign country. What is rewarding is the look on your children's faces. They have assimilated into the new population and they will be better off. For them, they will not see much discrimination because they will speak just like them. That is what I work for.
As for the mamak stores, etc. No, that lifestyle is gone. But I don't mind giving up satay and durian (by the way they are available here). Remember that you can do all these adventures in foreign land when you are young. If it doesn't work, just come back. But for older people, it has to be a right decision from the beginning.

Anonymous said...

If everything is like 1+1=2,that simple and clear, then we were/are no longer here to discuss about the title concerned. If everything like what you guys said were that easy, that meeting the requirements of LAN and MOHE will solve the problems, something that you can see and think about, then i bet all the fighters on behalf of TARC would have solved the problems ages ago. Remember, 1+1 can be 10 as well!

Anonymous said...

TARC like NEP, sets off with a noble intention, but over passage of time, it degeneratea and becomes a rotten institution.

The whole Campbell degree deal is a scam.
SAS students forking ringgit into US dollar, payable to US's Campbell university and the conspiracy theory is the Americans at Campbell University will then channel part of this collected fund to their UK's counterparts, which in turn, open their admission door to admit SOT's students to come to UK's certain upgraded polytechnics to top up their degrees.

This is a classic old trick being played out: Good cop and bad cop.

Who are playing the good cop and bad cop roles?Go figure...

TARC/MCA vs Government/UMNO
JPA vs LAN
Liong Sik vs Ng Lay Swee
Ng Lay Swee vs Ong Hock (he retired couple of years back, or is it forced to retire?)

The whole deal of MCA-politically run education establishment like TARC is to ensure the Malaysian taxpayers' money trickle to their cronies and supporters.

More TARC students equal more government subsidy flowing into MCA's coffer.

UTAR???
It will too slowly decay into another TARC.

Only through a total regime change in Malaysia Government could fix Malaysia's decaying education system.

Anonymous said...

Anon above:
As mentioned on TARC website:
http://www.tarc.edu.my/acad/sas/acad_sas.htm
TARC's Campbell course is accredited by a US organisation called SACS.
A previous poster (3/31/2007 10:13:00 PM) already suggested how to complain to SACS
if you really think you have been misled.

Anonymous said...

I bet you if Ong Ka Ting knows about this he will show his powerful kung fu kick and the MOHE will rush to recognise all TARC degrees

Daniel S.H. said...

It has been almost a year since my TAR college orientation in last May. I was in a crucial juncture in my life which I had to decide on many paths that lead into my desired future. My dad brought me to several education fairs in KL and Ipoh. I read all the brochures and prospectuses that I’ve got and I decided to take on this path, which I never regret.

My elder sister, who graduated from Cambridge University with a scholarship, had advised me to take on the typical route of form 6, and then apply for my first choice university- UM. However, I opted out due to the overwhelmed unfair competition from the Matriculation students. It is proven that their chances of getting their first choice course and desired university are much higher compared to the six-formers. In other word, all the priorities are given to those students who did an easier one year pre-u programme, which is meant to help the Bumiputeras. I was wondering, what I could do if I did strive twice harder compared to my matriculation peers and still being unable to gain admission to my first choice course and university. I might be a little pessimistic, but the double standard that the Government is currently practicing really victimized many hard working six-formers. Yea, I’m not willing to let go my dreams in order to help those who hardly willing to help themselves. After all, the declining quality of our premier university has made that a less attractive option to me.

So why not other private universities or colleges? My parents are ready to send me to Metropolitan College for an Australian degree. Every one of us knows that getting a degree in private colleges is never really affordable. The University Foundation Programme in Metropolitan costs around 7k, and its 3+0 programme costs about 60k. I don’t think my parents’ retirement benefits should be spent like this. I was wondering when I could start giving them money, and not repaying my ‘debt’. Besides, I remember that Tony did say that 3+0 twinning programme is not a really good option and he did blog about the declining quality of Australian Universities, recently.

Where I could get a good and affordable tertiary education then? Apparently, the answer is here (Yea, I’m in the college now). A diploma costs 7.5k. Of course, a diploma nowadays is no longer sufficient to provide me a good job. It is just a stepping stone for me. I’m going to get my so-called ‘unrecognized’ Advanced Diploma, then attend the top-up programme to obtain my degree from Sheffield Hallam University. The entire programme, which includes the diploma, advanced diploma, and the optional top-up programme) costs about 44k. Ok, I know some of you might think why SHU? Yes, SHU was a polytechnic. It is one of the many post-1992 universities in UK. I did some research last year and found that virtually all British universities that are currently collaborating with our private colleges for twinning programmes are post-1992 universities. According to the Good University Guide that I found on the internet last year (either GUG 2005 or GUG 2006), SHU was ranked 11 out of 40 over universities in the Post-1992 universities league, ahead of many Post-1992 universities which are currently collaborating with our local colleges. *For the complete list of Post-1992 British universities, please go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Universities

Now let me provide you some insights of my college. Well, I feel that most of our lecturers here are well-qualified; many of them are master-holders from local public universities. Of course, we do have some exceptionally good lecturers, who do not mind the less attractive remuneration that they are getting. For this semester, I have a really good lecturer from Nottingham University, teaching me Investment. On the other side, we have an inexperienced new lecturer. Recently, someone had complaint to our Head of Division regarding the latter. I’m glad the Head of Division and the Programme Supervisor promptly responded to the complaint by giving our lecturer a surprise visit during the two-hour lecture- to evaluate our lecturer. At the end of the lecture, we were asked by the Programme Supervisor to fill up the Lecturer Evaluation Forms.

At the end of every semester, the Head of Division and Programme Supervisor call for a meeting with the course committees. I, as the Asst. Course Representative, have noted that they are taking our feedbacks seriously whenever we meet. Students are also aware of various improvements that have been made. There are people who are trying hard to make this college a better place to study, but some of you might not realize that. I see no reason why the Government does not recognized the qualifications here. I reckon the effort of getting recognition were made since very long time ago, but the problems of red tape and the discrimination are the things that haunts the college. We deserved to be recognized by the JPA, however, even without it, I still believe that I could succeed in my life.

P.s.: My second sister graduated with a Campbell degree via TARC. Fyi, she is currently working with a Dutch company in Singapore, earning a good salary with good bonuses. Btw, did I mention that she is now a PR of Singapore?

Have a great day. :)

Anonymous said...

To Daniel S.H and TARC Head of SBS,SAS and SOT.

Hear these!Hear these!!
Starting from the year 2008, all examination fees for ACCA, Campbell University's degree fees and the tuition fees required to attend UK's "polytechnics-universities" for Summer top-up purposes shall be increase by 10%.

In return for this increments, if TARC could deliver 300 TARC's SAS students making payment to US's Campbell university, 300 TARC's SOT students going for the Summer's top-up programmes in UK's "universities" and 300 TARC's accounting major students registering and taking ACCA examinations, we will gladly "bestow" several PhDs to your loyal TARC's lecturers.

Additional to that, part of the money we extracted from you, young Malaysians Chinese students, shall be circulate back to MNC's companies with foreign PRs (Angmohs) bosses based in Singapore, who shall order their Singaporeans HR managers to create "virtual jobs or brainless jobs" so that we could hire 50 TARCians to work under us.

Yes. A clear quota of 900 TARCians to create 50 jobs in Singapore .

These 50 TARCians working in Singapore, then shall sing praises on TARC's achievement for making them a success story.

You all have 3 years, starting on 1st January 2008 to achieve the 900 figures.
You all better make sure that Malaysian Government's subsidy is going to help you achieve these goals!

coleong said...

Dear Daniel S.H,

Don't get distracted by all the negative comments you've read. The truth is if you try hard and work hard, you'll achieve your dream. Education is only part of the career. Once you graduated, it's the working experience and attitude that count. Whether you're from TARC or Cambridge it make no different if you didn't work hard. If I were you, I'll focus and concentrate in your study. Try to achieve as much as possible and fully utilised the resources available. Be optimistic :)

Anonymous said...

Dear Daniel S.H,

I firmly agreed wih anon above. I have read your msg and i found you are a determine person and you deserve brilliant achievements in time to come. Work hard, i am sure you can achieve your goal and dream.

Anonymous said...

These are few sayings that I wish to share with all blog readers of this website to ponder over.

"Education business in Malaysia is a big,lucractive business"
- a Malaysian businessman's saying.

Do you agree with the above saying or not?

"Business is war"
- a Japanese businessman's saying.

Do you agree with the above saying or not?

"All warfare is based on deception"
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

Do you agree with the above saying or not?

Never, never, never underestimate the awesome power of capitalism.

Anonymous said...

You forgot one more step"

Deception is fodder for our politicians

Anonymous said...

now i know the power of blogs. they can virtually change the perception of ppl towards certain issues just on one read. 3+0= bad, australian unis= bad, uk unis= good. good luck daniel. i admire your persistence, but not your gulliblity.

Anonymous said...

Some of my friends from TARC with Campbell BS Degree were successful in joining Postgraduate Master degree in MMU. I wonder how?

Anonymous said...

$$money$$ and/or the right human connections. Money Conquers All.

plsoo said...

Hopefully TARC certificates can be recognise by JPA as soon as Datuk Ong Tee Keat said at 9th April 2007 press conference after parliament meeting. So that the TARCIAN who interesting on government sector have chance to enroll as government servant.

Anonymous said...

http://www.chinapress.com.my/breaking_new.asp?a=0410bkg04.txt

Finally, Ong takes up some actions.

Anonymous said...

I have a feeling there is no way TARC diplomas will be recognised as degrees because the govt has already given MCA a choice and MCA chose to set up UTAR. In my opinion, TARC should close all degree-level diploma courses and concentrate on SPM-level diplomas for those wanting to be technicians. I think the govt might be more agreeable to recognise such SPM-level diplomas. Then let UTAR handle all degree-level courses. I think that was the original plan. Problems with fees for poor students can always be resolved within MCA. I also have the feeling that there is a political divide between TARC and UTAR because of these issues and TARC's stubborness to continue with their unrecognised degree programs. I think UTAR and TARC do not want to have anything to do with each other. Just my opinion.

Anonymous said...

"I think UTAR and TARC do not want to have anything to do with each other."

This is true. They don't like each other.

I spoke to the staffs of these universities, they said they have nothing to do with each other.

One admin staff told me if you did your diploma in TARC, you cannot continue or further in UTAR! If you don't believe me, call them an ask for yourself.

Malaysian higher education is too much involved in the malaysian political agendas. Scary!

Anonymous said...

"I have a feeling there is no way TARC diplomas will be recognised as degrees because the govt has already given MCA a choice and MCA chose to set up UTAR."

Firstly, JPA don't event recognise it as a diploma, don't talk about degree. The SPM cert worth more than the Tarc Diploma, in regards to the public sector.

Secondly, I had check with them about a year ago the diploma in Tarc cannot be used to further at UTAR. I'm not sure about the Degree from Campbell, I did not check. On the diploma, I heard a firm "no" a year ago.

I am not very sure if there is anyone successfully further studies in UTAR with their diploma, I mean continue for another year to get a degree... but I highly doubt so.

Just imagine for example, if I can get a degree from UTAR by just a final year, then everyone would go to TARC for three years there and one year in UTAR to get an engineering degree. Then no one would top-up overseas! And it is almost the same as allowing equal competition for non-bumi into public universities.

A perfect path for those who can't afford to go overseas and can't get into public U (not because they are not bright enough, but due to their skin colors). Also, I believe we have at least half if not more of the chinese-malaysian population who can't afford almost 10k a year.

Allowing such events, the market would be flooded with more competition, where they believe the malays will have harder competitionng in the market. Having quota in public universities is the same as not having it!

I think this explains why TARC is in this particular state til now. Really, not because their diploma is not enough standard, but due to some political reasons that exist here for some 50 years.

Anonymous said...

TARC is a good example of a 'living fossil'

Anonymous said...

All the Mandarin newspapers reported yesterday that 33 programs in the area of Arts, Science, Technology and Commerce, including the level of Diploma, Adv. Diploma and the twining program with Campbell University from TARC, have passed the MoHE’s examination and were allowed to proceed to seek JPA recognition.

This “good news” was announced by Ong Tee Keat and later, follow by Ong Ka Ting to give DAP a back thrust with this golden opportunity. Both of them accusing DAP for manipulating this issue as mean to earn the voters’ trust, and keep on repeating DAP is deceiving the public by saying that “TARC is Not Recognized” as the matter never exist!

Well…what I would like to say is that all the facts that DAP revealed were true, thought the party has the intention to use this issue to slap MCA. But again, MCA failed to get the matter right in the first place.

I am ex-TARcian, and had been query about the accreditation of Adv.Dip in Mass Comm I obtained from the college when I apply to further study at few local public and private universities (including UTAR!!!). Only then I realize the only chance for me to further study is to go UK. But the problem is I have no money. In this case, do all of you think that MCA are helpful to the Chinese community? I am actually happy to see MCA being forced to look at this matter seriously and do something about it. I do still keep contact with few of my lecturers, all of them fell happy too.

Anonymous said...

There are over 100 adv dip/dip/cert courses in TARC. It is too early to celebrate until you see the list of 33. Also, they have been doing this talking for over 20 years...so why change all of a sudden? Isn't the problem always has been at the JPA? If this is a major development, the lack of details in the news announcement is troubling. Is it another effort to string the Chinese along? We shall see ...

Anonymous said...

Wats the issue with TARC recognition?
The government has graciously recognised soo many degrees and diplomas from private colleges and universities.

So best way convert TARC to full private college or university...end of story!

HIDUP MCA!
HIDUP ONG KA TING!
HIDUP LING LEONG SICK!

Anonymous said...

Hi all,

Why is our government so funny?Funding a institute which is not recognize by themself? What are they trying to show?

Anonymous said...

The govt set up TARC to make the Chinese happy. The govt gave MCA a college but not recognition.
Technically, without recognition, that should be the same as getting nothing other than a paper-mill. But the Chinese said "no fish, shrimp is OK" and they have been saying that for 30 years. Today, MCA still says "no fish, shrimp is OK". Tak malu. Time for Chinese to wake up and see the light.

plsoo said...

More information in My Blog: soopakleong.blogspot.com

Elite@Villian said...

Doesn't matter if the government accepts us or not, I won't care about it anymore, as the issue will always be undermind, aren't MCA a government agency? MCA formed this TARCollege, why is it not recognised? lol very funny....ironic

Well if you realised, this issue is getting too long to solve it...

http://prevalentco.blogspot.com/2007/03/discussion-for-tarc-students.html

plsoo said...

If some of tarcian facing problem during futher study in local or private UNI. All my dear ex-tarcian please stand and fight our right.

kiddo said...

im pursuing a diploma in sports science at tarc in my 1st year, is it 2 late 2 back out now???

Anonymous said...

It has been about half a year now when MCA people announced that 33 TARC diplomas would be recognised by the govt. So, which 33 diplomas are now recognised? Any news or are they going to wait until we are near to the next general election to give the Chinese another carrot?

Anonymous said...

As info from UK Department of Innovation, Universities and Skills, all degree award by universities/institution which granted degree award power under royal charter or Higher Education act 1992 is recognised by UK Government. Please refer to http://www.dfes.gov.uk/recognisedukdegrees/

Thus, since this is the case, TARC-SHU/JMU Degree is also recognised . I cant find any academic/quality reasons for Malaysia Government refuse to recognised TARC-SHU/JMU degree. (Malysia government refuse recognised because politic?Answer in your mind)

Anonymous said...

I need help!!!
I got Advanced Diploma in Commerce from TARC. Can anyone tell me what to do is I wish to:-
(a) join as government teacher OR
(b) get a Malaysia recognised degree within shortest time frame
Thanks much!!!

Wai Wai said...

a friend told me that her son completed a diploma course in TAR, TAR has nothing to do with UTAR, therefore cannot transfer any of his diploma credit hours when wanted to pursue a degree in UTAR, my friend ended sending her son to a private college which allows him to obtain a degree in 2 years time....

Whatever the issue, it's really the management issue,be it the university's management or government's management and i sincerely hope it's not what many of us assume which is discrimination of the non-malays...

Anonymous said...

so far JPA has only recognized 17 out of nearly hundred courses of TARC(http://www.interactive.jpa.gov.my/webinteraktif/frmMainIktiraf.asp). However, only 3 Adv.Dip are in the list; 2 from SBS and 1 from SSH.I think we all have to pray and hope JPA will eventually speed up the recognition process.

TARC has also officially listed by both JPA and MQA as IPTA recently. But she is the only IPTA in the country which received little recognition from govt. I just wonder how could an IPTA offering courses that are not recognized by the authorities.

Wai Wai,you are right, UTAR and KTAR barely have any direct collaboration. To many others might think that both of them are brother and sister, however, the fact is they are not. UTAR not even recognizes the Adv.Dip of TARC thought this uni took KTAR's syllabus as its degree courses' blue print.Funny right? They even compete among themselves for new enrollments at almost every education fares, big and small, you name it.

Anonymous said...

With the election just about 2 weeks away, if TARC still cannot get all their advanced diplomas recognised, habis lah. If not now, when the govt is giving away election freebies, then when?

Anonymous said...

Now that MCA has lost badly in the recent elections, how is it going to affect KTAR? Is it going to be worst or better for KTAR? It is possible the govt may try to be more supportive of Chinese to win back their support, but on the other hand, the govt may think this is payback time and punish the Chinese.
What will happen to those Adv Dip courses still not recognised?

Anonymous said...

hi there i know it sound stupid to ask this question...

is Cambridge A-level at Tar College recognised?
i checked the LAN n JPA thingy....n i found nothing abt TARC cambridge A-level...

I'm now a student of TARc doin A-level for a week dy....
so confuse abt the recognition thingy....help
hope someone can answer me...

Anonymous said...

Hi All,

I am an Ex-Tarcian graduated in the early 80's. I think we are talking about TAR diplomas or certs recognized by government as entry qualification to work in the government sectors. With poor wages and little prospect for promotion, I wonder it is really that matter. There is no problem of getting a job in private sectors as well as out side Malaysia just with a TAR Diploma or Cert. I have seen many of them in doing so and I am one of them. Most important while studying for the Diploma or Cert, try to study for the external deg or professiona quali at the same time which will help to gain recognization by the government sectors as well as private sectors.

Cheers & Regards,

Paul Leong

Anonymous said...

Dear all fellow Tarcian, please dun be frustrated or confuse with your Diploma or Advanced Diploma. TARC has set the route to all of us since the set up of TARCollege. The purpose of TARC set up to help those unsuccessful non bumi to further tertiary studies due to the quota problem since 1969 after 513 tragedi. Therefore, they have agreed to non defeat the interest of non bumi to compete with bumi. Besides, TARC is under insentive of Gov. therefore our fees is consider cheaper than others Private College even Kindergarten. For the time being, so far 30 over year many Tarcian successful in career and postgradute. Pls be noted that the route is set to proceed to oversea Us but not local. So far we choose to live our way therefore don't blame any party in this.

The set up of TARC is just merely the monkey business of our politician by UMNO & MCA to cheat on chinese community.

One thing we can't denied is our TARCIAN is successful than many of UiTM graduate either in career o postgraduating.

CHEERS TARCIAN...our are the best!!!

Regards,
Nicolas Ng

Anonymous said...

well i used to be a tarcian, graduated with a diploma in financial accounting. Now i am studying in a famous university in new york city (take your best guess), and truthfully, i got in with my transcript from tarc college. i consider myself a living testament to whoever out there who doubt the viability of tarc college education and qualification. just one advise, whenever you find yourself in a pinch, just look beyond malaysia, and you will find a whole new world out there.

vincent said...

so...1 question...is applying to TARC a good option???or is it just a BIG mistake???

Anonymous said...

This is stupid... my fren holding a Utar degree is currently pursuing his phd in National University of Singapore... dont blame others if your result sucks.. my fren is a CGPA 3.9 graduate.. so he gets a place in NUS.... if you guys keep saying your Utar cert is worthless, can you post up your result as well? be fair... even if you are a CGPA 3.9 graduate from other local U, i believe other institution will recognize your cert too... its result problem, not the cert. Consider this, if you your self is a CEO of a major corporate, will you hire a CGPA 2.0 graduate from Oxford or a CGPA 4.0 graduate from UTAR?? think yourself and stop barking all around and humiliate yourself

Anonymous said...

Excuse me!!please don't blame Utar and Tarc...wtf...

Anonymous said...

I really disappointed with the action taken by the JPA and TARC to recognize the advance diploma in science. I'm actually is a civil servant but I don't get my confirmation and all the benefits that I suppose to have with my other civil servant friends after 8 years of services. I've been waiting for the recoganition 8 years already. How many more years I need to wait to be a permanent staff? I've already loss a lot of changes to get promoted, increament, allowances, further my studies and many more. I hope this case will be solve very fast.

:) said...

hi i m actually an mechanical engineering diploma student in tarc now.. when u say that the college degree is not recognized by the government does it mean tht a tarc graduate will have a harder time to find a job outside ?? was just wondering :)

Anonymous said...

Dear Vincent, sorry for the late reply on your 4.2011 post. This blogpost has been lasting for a very, very long time, and TARC has certainly changed a lot. It has been popular ground for many accounting students as it achieves the highest Platinum status in terms of the highest pass rates in Accountancy next to Sunway.

TARC has a lot of advantages over Sunway in terms of top quality education at very affordable course fees, and if you maintain your merit scholarship, you are practically 'cost-free' throughout your 4 years of studying in college.

Yet, it only matters a little if the lecturers are good, the facilities are excellent, etc., but you must also put a lot of commitment in your studies to see the results of your education.

TARC will be accorded university status soon, and this is proof of long-term hard work and continued recognition by the Government.