Sunday, August 23, 2009

Dodgy Degrees

Comprehensive write-up in the Star on dodgy degrees, a topic which we've blogged a lot about on this blog. Buyers beware!

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

hahahhaha, some datuk titles are dodgy too; Beware, and ask them, what services have they contributed to the nation ?

ais ~

clk said...

With the help of the internet, finding out dodgy degrees also got easier...just google the school and one can read them.

Anonymous said...

Aiyo YB Tony, not every one has your brains and more so rich parents perhaps like yours to be able to join top class universities in UK or US.

We also wish to better ourselves, rite? And, most Malaysian universities are so low in standards and studying in one of them may not lead me to a job.

So, we have to work to keep our tummy full. Then in our own extra time we go and study part-time. Yes, I know tradition universities are better than non-tradition ones. But you heard that Harvard started off in a small building but today its the world best, so give people a chance la. We were trained by professionals who are practising experts in their own field, we did assignments and we were engaged in projects and case presentations, and were learning from peers who like myself never had the opportunity to study like you did, but we managed to pass and gain fantastic skills and knowledge even our work colleagues and bosses were impressed with our new found abilities.

So, please be kind to us, YB. I know you are from Oxford but who are we to compare with you.

The rakyat voted you in to help us and you are doing a good job in the parliament but please dont champion by whacking or allowing your platform for whacking people who are less fortunate.

I did my MBA years ago with Preston U and i m proud to say that i have become competitive through the rigorous training in the many seminars. I salute my facilitators until today. They really helped me through.

Thanks for your time, YB.

I hope I made sense. So, people out there please dont feel small if u need to be trained in non-traditional ways. As long as there is learning and improvement of self, who cares what paper you hold. A paper is a paper to any interviewer, its whether you bought that piece of paper.

God Bless You Tony

kalu said...

i agree with anonymous.

true, as long you did it through the proper channel like attending classes, even if held in a hotel or a training room, and you have participated and written the case studies or coursework, and you know you have benefited and can contribute in your workplace, so what if it was Irish or Universiti Malaya.

Moey said...

Wei, Kalu, dun hit at Uni Malaya la. It is ok la eventhough it has lost out marginally in the world placing.

I graduated from there man.

TQ

Ivy Chai said...

just happen to read the article from The Star. Well-written.

it's just soo sad. what tony said is true - nothing in life is THAT easy to obtain.

LIM said...

Sir Tony

Please understand that some people really have trouble to make ends meet. They dont have the golden opportunities like you to be able to touch Oxford grounds. I know you did well academically that rewarded you to become an Oxford graduate and now with God's kindness also a Right Honorable in PJ.

Please dont look down on others, God forbid.

If really people had bought dubious qualifications, then it is not right. But we studied and sweated for ours. Your DAP collagues who is now a Selangor Top Leader was our classmate too and I can vouch that he worked hard for his MBA too.

Preston is not Bogus! It is just not accredited.

We have never heard of an UMNO supreme council member as Preston graduate. But if he had worked for it, then please be fair to him.

I love to be an Oxford grad too but God perhaps loves you more or He has other plans for me.

Thanks for reading this.

Angeline said...

Hey Gang, I think we put our resources together and help all our country's unemployed grads. I am one of them, very very sad.

I dont want to go for retraining to be right for the market place. I think everyone has the right to study anything if he or she can benefit from the learning process, dont care if the university is accredited of not but as long as it is not ditching out degrees for no efforts on the student's part.

Agreed??

Help us please! The country is not doing much for us. But I cant shout either. I dont have the money to study overseas AND ALL OUR LOCAL lecturers are inexperienced. However they tried their best.

AChong said...

To those who graduated from preston etc: Stop saying that not everyone can afford to study in oxford and use that as an excuse. How much did it cost for you to pay for the Preston degrees? I am sure it is not that cheap either. If you are serious in your study, you could have at least try Wawasan open uni, OUM etc which is genuine and affordable. Some might laugh at the idea of studying at OUM but at least it is better than some degree mills which is just a short cut, no doubt about it. Best of all, OUM/Wawasan Uni's programem are distance learning.

I worked hard obtaining my PhD from MMU and my total fee for the PhD was less than RM7000! I am sure it is cheaper than your preston DBA or MBA.

Regards

Dr. Alain Chong

Anonymous said...

One thing I would like to enlighted folks is that look at most of the graduates in London and New York's financial hub that tumbled and led to a recession were qualified from either Ivy League institutions or red brick universities. So don't knock the untradtional universities. Also, it does not mean if you go to Oxbridge or Harvard that you are morally and ethically responsible to the poor and the masses of people around the world living under the poverty line. So for heaven's sake look at the issue in perspective and let people decide for themselves what is best rather than be dicatated by the whims and fancies of people living in ivory towers.

Anonymous said...

Unaccredited degree-providing institutions are just like pirated DVD sellers on the street. They sell you the copy of what other people have formulated, researched and tested but with quite a low price (some of them are even more expensive than genuine ones), with no accountability and recognition.

People have complained about local universities for not achieving a certain international standard in education, and here we have some people trying to defend and even give credit to anonymous online opportunists who dish out these papers called MBAs and PhDs for money. What a joke!

I know that some of these 'mickey mouse universities' do give you some value in life, maybe sense of pride or progress in career, but please do not put them at the same level with other serious universities who have treated knowledge as the tool to improve humanity, rather than a commodity to make some quick cash.

ALIEN

Anonymous said...

Even accredited universities in Germany are dubious when it comes to scandal and bribery so becareful when you support accredited universities all the way. Humans are not perfect and have their price so recognised institutions are not immune to the same problems faced by their less recognised or unaccredited illegitimate cousins.

Anonymous said...

It is hilarious that in one of the mainstream newspapers icons of private education are giving advice on how not to be cheated. However, have readers been given the thought that some of these so called icons have had dubious practices outside their normal scope of work in providing education with partners from overseas educational institutions and making profits from it and authorities closing one eye to such practices by telling plaintifs to not take up a case because it will embaress political figures.

Anonymous said...

at least i understand abt the expected standard of bogus university degrees, but more serious problems are our own recognized universities whose degree quality shd be questioned

murthi, mba from non-tradition route said...

I think Alain Chong teaches in Wawasan OU. Are you one of those who turned out "Unemployed Graduates"?

Wawasan OU is fine but for full time students, never worked before.

Lecturers are all about theories frombooks. Most of these lecturers have not made it big in the corporate world so ho wto teach MBA especially to people who are already in significant position or in a successful business settin?

When you study in a part-time environment, at least you can learn from your peers as well as from seminar leaders with vast executive and business experience.

And, most universities (including UTAR) do not allow their faculty members to be involved in consultancy work outside their brick walls, so how can they bring back whats current to share in case studies with their hungry students??

Dr Alain Chong, do you want your own child to be street wise who will succeed or a bookish boy who loves to read books and cant see the real world out there?

Leave people be. Your PhD maybe in something obsolete if you do not continue to update rite??

Abe Tay said...

MU medical degrees are not recognised in UK!

So do we close down MU?

I will pay to sit in a workshop led by industrially qualified facilitators who are perhaps a franchise expert or a HR Director or a PLC Executive Director. You think they come cheap?? Of course not! But I am willing to part with my money for the current and relevant skills these gurus can pass o me.

Surely, no way will I want to be "taught" by DR ALAIN CHONG if his is an obsolete PhD. Or, by YB Tony Pua, eventhough his is an Oxford Masters if he is good in Politics and his former skills in IT which is also obsolete if he does not update himself in that area.

So Folks, dont fret, as long as you did not buy a degree, please carry on an be trained by experts.

In fact all university lecturers should be trained by these experts and gurus. Then they will know how to produce graduates who will have jobs waiting for them even before the pass out.

Kartini said...

Be younger brother was retrenched 2years ago. He graduated from UKM. His lacked social skills. I adviced him to join the JC to build up his leadership abilities.

Instead, he and his 2 friends joined a unaccredited MBA. According to his expression, it was a "wow" experience. He said he shivered when asked o deliver his case study answers in front of his classmates. But the encouragement given to him by his trainers, all of whom were people from the industry and commerce.

They used the action learning methods to conduct all the modules.

In short, my brother is no longer the timid and non-communicative brother. Today he is in a well paid post flying in and out of the country as a Country Manager.

I can vouch the MBA changed him positively and economically.

tajudin said...

I interviewed candidates for various positions. I am a small time head hunter.

I must say that I continue to be impressed with those who recently completed their MBA or BBA through 'non-tradition route.

We hire the candidates not the paper qualifications.

Some thoughts for you ladies and gentlemen.

AChong said...

Dear murthi, mba from non-tradition route:

I definately have no linkage with WOU or Open Uni. If based on what I said you made this assumption, then I have to ask if you are working for Preston Uni, Irish Int. Uni or Newport Uni?

My point of view is quite clear in the sense that if people are giving excuse such as affordability and time being the main factor why they can't do a course, they should consider distance learning courses.

I agree with you that face to face interaction is important but I would not want to interact with classmates who do have even pass their SPM and yet are doing their MBA.

Yes, paper qualification is not the only thing as one of you mentioned. If so, WHY GO AND GET A DEGREE FROM A DEGREE MILL?

Note the difference between unaccredited universities and universities such as Preston, Newport etc which tried to cheat and even create fake accreditation body!

And yes, some lecturers do not have industrial experience, but are you saying your lecturers from preston, newport etc have?

Lastly, my PhD is not obsolete as you claimed as I received my PhD last year at the age of 28 and I have published part of my thesis in reputable, top ranked journals through hardwork. But this is something those who purchased their degree will not understand.

I would love my children to study in a proper university, mix with honest, hardworking students who earn their degree, and at the same time contribute to the society. Your argument is flaw as you are claiming that those who study in proper uni will end up only reading book and not work in real world. Please note that Warren Buffet did graduated from Columbia and Donal Trump likewise studied at Uni of Pennsylvania. Perhaps they did not teach this to you in your Preston/Newport/Irish Int. MBA.

Anonymous said...

Abe Tay :

Did you read the link or the newpaper on Sunday? We are talking about degree mill and this is the topic of discussion. Nothing related to train by trainers, experts and so forth. You can go and do it, no one is saying that is wrong. We are saying you should not purchase degree from degree mill. Next time, read before you comment!

Tony P said...

This is so funny. A whole bunch of marketeers for these dodgy degrees and PhDs coming to this blog to "justify" the need for degree mills for those who seek instant status gratification, and to cheat themselves to higher careers.

I'll delete all subsequent posts that does the same after these. The above are nauseaus enough.

Nathan said...

murthi, mba from non-tradition route & Abe Tay:

I agree with AChong, how come "expert" in industry cannot afford to get into the real uni.?or dont want to get in to the real uni.?

the real expert, for sure will get their degree at the real uni.

just give me some reasons why "expert" or "guru" as u mentioned, dont want to go to real uni.?cannot afford...or cannot pass?

another issue is, DONT EVER USE ECONOMY CONDITION AS UR EXCUSE!
especially for the experts in industry, with their experience, for sure, there are many sponsor who wants to give them some money to get into real uni. or even a TOP RANK UNI!

FOR U WHO SAY U R EXPERT IN INDUSTRIAL FIELD AND YET STILL GET INTO "FAKE" UNI., ask yourself a question, is your experience is enough to get into the REAL uni.?

go check some scholarship and also sponsor from your so called industry!!

in my opinion, expert in industrial field, for sure can get into the real uni. and pass their requirement, and (no offence) the only reason not getting into the real uni., is LAZINESS....

lazy to study, pay lar...

Anonymous said...

Dear YB Tony take action on the source of the problem that is recruitment of candidates to public universities via scholarships without preference to race and creed but through meritocracy and not through greed. This will stop the unaccredited organisations in their tracks. It will also stop recognised unis from Australia in exploiting poor Malaysian students as we can see from the exploitation of Indian students. As YB you should see that the public institutions set a good example and not recruit professors with qualifications that are acquired through international trade between nations and that their PhD from esteemed British Unis should not say at the back for use in Malaysia only.

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Anonymous said...

I do not have a PhD. Surely, I love to have one but I will not buy.

Learning is a continuous process and knowledge should be gained from accumulative experiences and continuous learning.

I respect those who spent hard works to earn their degrees. It does not matters what level of qualification or discipline you are but it has to be a genuine one.

Oh, as far as I understand, PhD is not about how much of knowledge you gained during the years but the training that made you as a lifelong and independent learner.

Forgive me for my proficient in English. God Bless.

Anonymous said...

A fool and his money are soon parted.

There is a sucker born every minute in the world.

Does the above phases apply to Preston University students??

Kalambong said...

A very sickening scene is this ---> the good guys are as bad as the bad guys

The Dong Jiao Zhong is supposed to be the good guys in this whole mess, and yet, when the guy who leads the Dong Jiao Zhong himself having several bogus doctorate degrees, who else can we turn to?

Anonymous said...

Dodgy degrees are also provided by some dodgy Australian universities which overcharge and are well known to their victims like the Indian students who have been racially discriminated down under. Only feel sorry for those who prescribe to some of these accredited degree mills from down under who get sucked in by these pretenders.

Anonymous said...

Shortchange your education now and you may be short of change the rest of your life.

The only thing expensive than education is ignorance.

Education can't make us all leaders-but it can teach us which leader to follow.

dungu said...

Whilst in full-time employment, I obtained two professional qualifications and a MBA from an accredited redbrick UK university, all via distance-learning, and all from my own pocket like many others.

So what is all the crap about justifying 'studies' from unaccredited institutions or degree mills, when a simple-joe like me can go through the pains of an honest education?

Anonymous said...

Dear dungu,
I'd like to pursue an advanced degree thru distance-learning due to my job and family commitments. May I know any redbrick UK unis that I can look to?
Thanks!

dungu said...

Dear anonymous,

You can check out the degreeinfo.com forum where they have a comprehensive list of UK universities offering programmes by distance learning.

To address your more immediate curiosity however, you can check out University of London, Heriot-Watt University, University of Liverpool, Strathclyde University and University of Warwick for their distance learning programmes.

Hope that helps.

Anonymous said...

Thanks dungu. That helps a lot. Will take a thorough look at all these courses and unis!

Anonymous said...

Get a USA Liberal Arts Degree. You can't go wrong. =)

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_ZwY99womA

Anonymous said...

Preston University is established by a guy called Thomas Leong. I remember one of his lecturers who got fired over a complaint by a student. This complaint was contrived not by the student but by Thomas Leong's wife Cindy Leong. The lecturer said that Cindy Leong is very materialistic in approach and told Thomas to buy her a house if she accepted his proposal for marriage. It seems now he has settled down in Australia but still runs the centre in SS2.

Anonymous said...

Here we are comparing UM, USM, UKM status and debating whether they should be used to compare against degree mills.

And the quality of our own lecturers are also of question.

While down south has already got lecturers who are world reknown, and getting better.

Don't say that I am punishing Malaysian ego.

Kofi Annan, former Chief of the United Nations (UN) is confirmed joining the National University of Singapore (NUS) as a Professor.

Go read the news. International news.

Anonymous said...

Kofi Annan... Nobel Peace Prize winner. Now NUS will really be goin up in rankings, and international recognition.

Anonymous said...

Somehow, all these make me glad of my decision. My niece got offer by NUS to study Science. She was waiting for our local University for Medicine.

I told her, go to NUS. My company sponsor everything so she don't have to sign Singapore bond, but sign my company bond.

She gave up the Medicine offer in Malaysia and went study Chemistry in NUS. Her parents were not very happy. Medicine is everyone's dream.

Today, she is a top performer in my company. She has managed to link our sales to US with her exchange programme she got at NUS.

Her parents finally not regret. They saw the doctors in Malaysian work so hard in clinics and get not as much satisfaction as my niece in my company.

Now I am encouraging my friends to sponsor Malaysians to study in NUS. Afforadable and they are training our people for us. Recognised international somemore. Why not?

Anonymous said...

I think the motivation for becoming to doctor is to serve the community and help patients. It is not just about money. Doctors in Clinic work hard but they may be happy saving lives. People like Vivien Thomas spent their whole lives wanting to become a doctor while we have people just talking about money, recognition, being international etc. Anyway, a good doctor who does well in his/her job will definately not going to be paid poorly as well. A surgeon will be paid very well. Having said that, like I say, if pay is the main motivation, then the person should not be a doctor after all. I am glad your niece did not pursue her degree at local university as she might not end up as a good doctor. Of course, the main question I have in mind is how come she can't study medicine at NUS but instead have to do chemistry??? A bit dissapointed with the shallow thinking of the previos commentator.

Anonymous said...

I think the motivation for becoming to doctor is to serve the community and help patients

Prove to me that being a social worker to prevent a person develop illness from psychological stress is not serving the community.

Prove to me that being Chemical Engineer to create clean fuel is not serving the community.

Prove to me that being a teacher to imbue the young with knowledge is not serving the community.

There are so many more I can ask.

Why are Malaysians so stuck in the notion that ONLY DOCTORS can serve the community.

Your argument is just wrong.

Malaysian mentality is just wrong!

Anonymous said...

the main question I have in mind is how come she can't study medicine at NUS but instead have to do chemistry???

Because NUS has better standard than Malaysian Universities.

So easy. I am so disappointed with your shallow mentality and lack of knowledge.

Anonymous said...

To the person who commented "Malaysian mentality is just wrong!". Aren't you yourself a Malaysian? Just because your relative went to singapore does not mean you are now a Singapore as well.

Anonymous said...

Doctors are just another minority-workers-slaves.

Some parents never learn who are the true lords on this planet, the professions that are at the top of human food chain.

Bankers-lawyers rule the world!

The free world is led by Bernanke-Obama.

Anonymous said...

To the person who commented "Malaysian mentality is just wrong!". Aren't you yourself a Malaysian? Just because your relative went to singapore does not mean you are now a Singapore as well.

I do not have a relative who study in Singapore.

You are simply silly to try to divert your shallowness by playing the "Malaysia-Singapore" game again.

Don't try it here. We're not as shallow and stupid as you are. And I bet none of your relatives can get into NUS even if they apply. Including you.

Get Shock said...

http://mmail.com.my/content/12870-varsity-we%E2%80%99re-no-degree-mill

action filed at High Court

Get Shock said...

The Irish International University (IIU) has filed the first of its multi-million dollars lawsuits at the High Court of Malaysia.

Writ Saman- No: S-23-19-2009

Anonymous said...

According to IIU’s statement, the university, that practices an “open university” concept, was founded over one-and-half decades ago with founding members from four nationalities.

It also affirmed that its degrees have been validated and recognised by several United Kingdom professional bodies, accredited universities and in several cases, governments.


Which "professional bodies", "universities" and "governments" recognised their degree? How come not say out?

Anonymous said...

Give free higher education like in Taiwan and Germany. Then no one will buy fake degree...it is as simple as that..education should be given for free...someone should show the way,,,offer university degree courses for free.

Anonymous said...

I know a guy with Preston MBA with a diploma from Tar college. Cant speak english or write proper english. I am doubtful if he can read english. BTW he works as a manager in his brother's company

Anonymous said...

I have come across a politician who graded himself as a Dr. but on checking further he failed to pass his LCE.It is a clear cut of cheating especially when you gained high position through this mean.